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Lebron James passing to the corner when he gets in the paint

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by jopatmc, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    What?? How dare you to say he choked?? How dare you say a professional player, the best player on the planet...choked.

    That's how silly some of you posters are.

    Well, at least you had the kahonas to answer the question.

    The best player on the planet...shot the 3rd most shots on his team, went to the FT line a grand total of 20 times in 6 games, had an A/TO ratio of less than 2 while being the primary playmaker on the team. Oh, but he did lead his team in assists. Yay! And his teammates shot their customary 35% from 3. Yay!
     
  2. cooliobob

    cooliobob Member

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    I don't care how you spin this, but cutting to the basket and kicking the ball out when 2 or 3 defenders close on you is the smarter play in basketball, even if your name is LeBron James. LeBron knows this, which is why he does this. We can go back and forth and have a pissing contest about shooting percentages inside and out, but fact of the matter is LeBron is going to do what he believes is the best basketball play 9 times out of 10.

    The reason why the Heat lost in the finals last year is simply due to the fact that LeBron wasn't assertive enough. I'm not sure whether or not he was afraid of stepping on Wade's toes or he simply caught stage fright, but LeBron simply did not engage himself like he did the previous 3 rounds. LeBron is a helluva a player that any team int he league would want and as a coach you just have to trust that your player can make the best plays when they count.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. RedNation

    RedNation Contributing Member

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    The mavs outplayed them.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Fine - make it 40%. 40% of 3 = 60% of 2.

    You think LeBron is a 60% or more scorer for what he thinks are too closely guarded shots underneath? He's only 70% including unconstested dunks and layups.

    You fail to appreciate that the reason why it's an efficient play is the same reason why Arian Foster gets 5 yards a carry - he doesn't do it 75 times a game, and he doesn't take bad shots - which is why he's putting up effecient seasons that nobody not named Wilt or Michael has done.
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Sure, that's how Micahel and Wilt (the only guys in the conversation when it comes to LeBron statistically) won their championships, right? The years when they took all the shots?

    ....or was that not what happened?
     
  6. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    MJ shot the ball on approximately 27 possessions per game. Lebron shots the ball on approximately 22 possessions per game. If Lebron upped his shots to MJ numbers by taking those shots when he gets in the paint and attempting to finish when he gets into the paint instead of passing out, then his scoring numbers would increase up to around 35 ppg or more. And he would still get his 6 assists.


    Wilt was a different era playing a different game from a different position. No real comparison to make to him.

    Go back and look at MJ's numbers, Sam.

    But on another note, why? Didn't you see MJ play? What was MJ all about anyways? I don't need to look at piles of stats to know the difference between MJ and Lebron. MJ was always going towards the goal, and taking the shot, or drawing the foul, or both. MJ had to be doubled when he caught the ball and he had to be doubled and tripled all the way to the rim. Lebron's defenders start peeling off him when he gets in the paint and they start heading for the perimeter because they know he is going to pass out. Just keep watching the games and watch it happen.

    An interesting look at their respective careers shows that both MJ and Lebron shoot about 8 FTs per game during the regular season and about 10 FTs per game during the post season. And Lebron is doing that while taking approximately 5 fewer shots per game. Lebron's FTs would jump up another 2 or so per game if he took 5 more shots. And the foul count against the opponent would increase and Miami would be in the bonus earlier and the defense would be playing more tentative earlier in the quarter, and Lebron's teammates would be getting better looks as a result. It would have a snowball effect on Miami's efficiency and on the defense's ability to stop not only him but the rest of his teammates. I'd rather have DWade driving to the goal against a defense in the bonus, and unable to attack him nearly as much as I would having Mike Miller or James Jones or some other one-sided player taking at best a 40% shot from 3.

    Lebron's teammates are getting 1.19 PPS. Lebron's PPS is around 1.4. I can say it many different ways. Lebron should be taking those extra shots he can take when he gets in the paint. It amounts to 5 or 6 extra shots per game, some which translate to shots on the the boxscore, some of which will translate to 2 free throws on the box score.

    I can make this argument all day long. But I shouldn't have to. You should be able to see it.

    What is the difference between Lebron and MJ and Kobe??? The difference is MJ and Kobe have rings and Lebron has none. Why do they have rings? Because they used up a lot more possessions being aggressive to the rim and forcing the defense to foul them. Go back and look at how many fouls Kobe draws compared to Lebron. The difference is stark!! And Lebron should be drawing so many more fouls than Kobe simply because he is younger, bigger, and much more athletic at this point in his career. But Kobe understands the value of drawing the contact, drawing those fouls. Lebron likes to stand outside and pump fake and take the cheap shooting fouls. He should be more aggressive to the rim when that pump fake don't work and go in there and collect his fouls inside as well.

    Once again, I shouldn't have to go through all this to prove my point. Sam, you know basketball well enough to know what I'm saying here. Most of these posters are making excuses for Lebron. Look at MJ's and Lebron's bodies. Whose body should hold up the best against contact? Look at Kobe's and Lebron's bodies. Whose body should hold up the best with increased usage and contact in the paint???? There's no doubt about it. So all that stuff about wearing him down, etc. It's total bull.

    Once again, Lebron makes the right basketball plays almost all the time. That is the right basketball plays for most every person walking on this planete. But in his case, when he goes into the paint with the dribble and he's going up against 2 or even 3 guys that are inferior to him physically, athletically, talent-wise, and skill-wise, he should be able to get the shot off, draw those fouls and get to the FT line instead of passing out for the "wide open" 3 point shot that represents the highest efficiency for almost every player on the planet save for guys like Kobe and MJ.......and Lebron.
     
  7. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Using your argument agaisnt you, Foster should even have less carries because he could then average 7 yards per carry. So, just play him on passing downs when the D is expecting a pass, so he can run that YPC up.
     
  8. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    SamF, stop posting so that this thread dies.
     
  9. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    LOL.

    The truth doesn't die.
     
  10. dsid411

    dsid411 Member

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    Haha exactly, they were a much better team.
     
  11. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    They were much better because Lebron was busy trying to be like Magic instead of trying to be like Mike. Lebron doesn't have the passing skills to be as good a passer as Magic. He doesn't see the floor as well, and he can't make all those magic passes that Magic made. However, Lebron does have all the scoring ability that Mike had .... and probably more because he is bigger and stronger....and still be the very good passer he is today.
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Why? The point seems to have flown a bit over your head.

    You may need to go back and review Jordan & Chamberlains career, then review the fate of the early 60's Warriors and the late 80's early 90's Bulls, in which they did pretty much exactly what you would advise them to do.

    and LMFAO@ your linear correlation between shots and shooting percentage...heh. Am wondering why actually Wilt didn't average 100 ppg in your universe.

    Because you'd have less total yards. Hint: It's a curve, not a line.
     
    #132 SamFisher, May 1, 2012
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  13. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MdKEqEp0I-0?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MdKEqEp0I-0?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
     
  14. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Yes, it is a curve. Lebron needs to go higher up on the curve.
     
  15. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Did you even watch the series? Lebron wasn't trying to be Magic. If anything, he was trying to be Shane Battier.
     
  16. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    He looked like Tracy in the Toronto game actually.
    Except it wasn't from disgust at the organization, it was from fear.

    You could tell in the press conferences after games he looked completely hopeless and depressed. I don't know what was wrong with him mentally, but that wasn't LeBron James talking in those PCs.
     
  17. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    I'm really just trying to splice and augment segments out of the points made to where its in a "palatable" dose

    :p

    Such as saying, I think (or putting words in his mouth) he's discussing "situational" passing of the corner pass. Where when Lebron gets into that CERTAIN zone, focus should go to the rim and not back out to the perimeter. So when the SITUATION comes up when Lebron needs to IMPOSE instead of DEFER, Lebron doesnt "regress" to playing "hot potato" with the ball.

    Basically, Lebron's approach takes away the KILLER INSTINCT. Trying to go for a certain "aesthetic" instead of going with WHAT CAN REALLY WORK.

    Okay. But then he made the ABSOLUTE conclusion that Lebron passing from the paint to the corner is "the stupidest play in basketball". When you say a statement like that of the BEST player in basketball in a HISTORIC season ... its gonna come across as effective as passing to Juwan Howard in the corner, or something.

    In effect he's saying Lebron is capable of more performances like the 25 straight points against against Pistons playoff game. I stop short of saying that, thats asking quite a lot.
     
  18. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    There's a perfect example of what I mean. He single-handedly took 3 Knicks to the rim and finished with the foul. The foul puts Tyson Chandler out of the game and puts James and the Heat back in the game. The proper basketball play was to pass out. He took the best play, not the proper play.
     
  19. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    And then Spoelstra follows that up by isolating Wade and James isn't even involved in the last missed shot of the game. Sure, they'll probably get the Knicks in game 5, but that was a totally bone-headed play call. Not James' fault. But James didn't assert himself either.


    By contrast, the Knicks milked Melo every possession. And got it done.
     
  20. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    How has that worked in games 1, 2, and 3?
    There is a reason why Carmelo can't win games in the playoffs. He has the team, but he chooses to do it by himself. Then he yells at his teammates for not passing him the ball.

    The ego of MJ without the skill. And even MJ knew you have to pass the ball to win the game.
     

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