Haven't read back through the thread but this just hit me... LeBron may very well be the new version of KG. A great individual talent that will suffer until he gets a real team around him. Hopefully he gets help before he's almost done like KG.
umm, no way. i mean, you can't make that comparison. KG needed help because a) he wasn't a great closer b) he wasn't great at putting a team on his back when necessary and scoring at will c) kinda like (b), he didn't have a ton of go-to moves on the post--he was successful off the pick and roll hitting jumpers at the top of the key moreso than on the block Lebron, on the other hand, can give you 40 if necessary. He can finish out games with scoring, he can score through double teams, etc. And he has numerous moves...most notably, he can get by anyone, he can draw fouls with the best of them, and he can knock down his FTs
It's generally acknowledged in the golf world that the competition nowadays is much stiffer than it used to be. Golfers also do not really compete with one another as much as they compete with the course and their own shortcomings. Tiger forced the golf world to change the way to approach the sport. He set the standard higher than its been before. I just think that Tiger is a poor comparison because by my estimation, he deserves every bit of coverage he gets. LeBron, for all his achievements, has accomplished a small fraction of what Jordan or even Bryant (though they're tied for reg. season MVP's) has accomplished. I don't feel that we need to be force-fed all these pieces about him day in and day out. What's worse is that with the increased information flow that comes with the development of the internet, we can't escape for his hype. That's the LeHype seems so ubiquitous. If we had this sort of technology during the Jordan era, His Airness' hype would be even crazier. I guess people are upset because they feel like LeBron doesn't deserve the hype. I count myself among the that group. Until he achieves what Jordan or at least what Bryant has achieved, I don't really need to hear about him or see his picture on Slam every other month. I guess the media is glad that they finally found a transcendent athletic talent who is actually marketable. I just wish they toned it down some.
By that, do you mean until he wins 3 or more championships? How many times do you think LeBron would have won a championship by now if he entered the league with an in-his-prime Shaquille O'Neal? Or if he was paired with HOF-caliber wing like Scottie Pippen who also happened to be one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever? That's why I have a problem with these conditions on when it becomes acceptable to talk about LeBron as an all-time great.
Lebron has taken his team to the finals. I think he is in a different player than KG. If boozer had stayed in Cleveland they might have a championship by now.
Bron Bron doesn't need to brag when he has the rest of he world doing it for him. I don't think it's as much hate LBJ as hate the hype around LBJ -- this includes blind bandwagon nut-huggers. LBJ is a tremendous talent and athlete, but also gets away with more than his fair share of calls. It's always a turn off when the playing field isn't level.
Does LeBron have the game that suits Shaq's style? Can he be effective without dominating the ball all the time? Does he become the player he is today if he isn't allowed to be the man like he is in Cleveland? Greatness shouldn't be based on 'what-if's'. I have a problem with ESPN crowning him before he won anything. King of what, exactly? All these pretentious titles that he does not deserve just serve to alienate other fans. "The King", ""The Chosen One"? We are all "witnesses"? Just stop it. I personally don't believe he deserves this hype just because, apparently, he could have won x amount of championships if he replaced Bryant in 2000-2002. Or x amount of championships with Scottie Pippen as his wing-man. That's all speculation. You don't know he'd accomplish what they did. What about Barkley, Olajuwon, and Drexler? Weren't they supposed to win it all?
I think most people like Lebron for his skillz on the court and his charm off the court. However, as a Rockets fan, I would rather not see any player being over-hyped by the media because it would have a detrimental effect on the Rockets. Why? Most refs are human beings and thus have tendency to believe whatz on TV. If the Rockets were to meet the Cavs one day in the championship series. I don't want the Rockets to lose b/c of tainted officiating. Thus, I would like describe Lebron as a 6'8" athletic phenom who can't shot FT to save his life and crab dribbles all the way the basketball while initiating 80% of the contact.
I think it's the only sensible way of looking at it. It forces you to consider the important stuff -- what the player actually does on the floor that can contribute towards winning a championship. The championships themselvres aren't the important thing. It's what the player does that can lead to championships that matters.
thing is, he'll bolt by next year if his team is in the same predicament. lebron's destiny is to win multiple championships. and he'll do that.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. It's not that there will never be anyone as good as better, but those guys have reached the ultimate Legend status in their sports and the more time that passes, the harder it is going to be to take away their thrones. In the case of Ruth, I think so much time has passed that it'll never happen. With Jordan, he's pretty much at the same point but there might still be a small window open.
I don't know about that. It seems like any team that could afford to sign him as a free agent is going to have a worse supporting cast than the Cavs.
Fair enough. I place more value in the actual winning than you do. I disagree with your assertion that the championships aren't the important thing. Winning the championship is what great players aspire to achieve. It means everything. It takes a lot more than what a player is capable of doing on the court. It takes guts, willpower, and heart along with the ability to play the game at the highest level. I find it cool though how your opinions are really analytical. It's a nice parallel to your love of stats.
You can't use career achievements as the basis for comparing a 24 year old Lebron versus retired players. Jordan dominated the ball all the time, how do you think he averaged 30+ points a game? Shooting spot up jumpers? I think the media hype is ridiculous but if any player is worthy of the hype it's Lebron. He is without a doubt one of the top handful of players I've ever seen. He's ridiculous. He's the closest thing to a Magic/Jordan morph that I could even imagine.
Never a Lebron fan, but I don't hate LeBron James, I just hate the hype. And let us get the fact straight, Jordan made Scottie Pippen great, not the another way around.
Couldn't have said it better. I don't hate the guy either, but when i'm told this is what the NBA wants to see, then I automatically don't want to see it. Compare this to Michelle Wie. They kept telling us how good she is and she was always front and center in the events she was in and ESPN was all over her and she never won anything. Let people appreciate thing on their own without all of the hype, commercials and attention then there will be less hate.
It doesn't matter, this is pro sports. You win it or lose it. No excuse. And you are a loser until you actually win it. For now, Lebron has won nothing.
