LeBron can't win it alone? Neither could MJ, Bird or Magic

I know, right? I could see the Kobe lovers giving him credit for the play if Fisher got the pass from Kobe, or even if Fisher was open because of the attention Kobe was commanding. But Fisher is very well covered there.

The Robert Horry shot against the Kings was another HUGE shot that really had nothing to do with Kobe (except of course that he missed what would have been the game tying shot just before the Vlade Divac tap out to Horry).

 

Its crazy what people come up with, Lebrons skills are undeniable so in order to bash him you have to reach, and this thread is nothing but reaching

 

Again, more of the same, failed logic that keeps appearing in this thread.

If Jordan had left the bulls to join say, Isiah Thomas in Detroit to win a few rings, and continued to put up the same numbers, sure its still "Isiahs team" and Isiah would still be the "leader" and whatever else quaint little bullsh!t titles people keep bringing up, but does jordan suddenly magically cease to be the better player? Is Isiah all of a sudden the superior BASKETBALL PLAYER now that Jordans on HIS team?

NO.


If you disagree with this then your logic is sh! t, or you are just another little young kobe groupie who wants to have his baby.

 

And that's why pretty much everybody was pissed off that the Gasol trade happened. It was ridiculous, and should have never happened. And what happened with the Heat is even more ridiculous. So,what's the point?

As for the Celtics, Ray Allen coming off of double ankle surgery for the fifth pick in the draft (budding player Jeff Green) was a fair trade...some would almost extremely risky and brash. The Timberwolves traded Garnett for a TON of assets which included two first round picks and future 22/10 youngster Al Jefferson. Garnett was also literally in the last two or three years of his prime. Both trades were fair, and as you mentioned the Celtics had to suffer for a long time to get those picks. They also made several other brilliant draft picks and moves for role players to surround those guys with (Rondo, Davis, Perkins). This is nowhere near comparable.

 

Those who were pissed off were haters. How come there wasn't an outcry when all star talent like Caron Butlerr was traded away for a bust named Kwame Brown?

 

You DO realize that Jordan hated Thomas and the Pistons right? There was something called, oh I don't know, competitiveness that drove Jordan into wanting to beat the Pistons? And if you think Jordan would have left Chicago to go to Detroit and be chummy with Zeke, you probably also forgot the reason why Zeke wasn't apart of the original 1992 Dream Team either. So the premise that "Jordan could have easily joined the Pistons if he had wanted to" is pretty much, as you would say, sh! t logic.

 

^^^^

Your argument can be summed up by saying it's ok for a team to do whatever to acquire talent, but it's not ok for free agents to make up their own minds like grown men and decide to play with talent. Good for the bossman but not the player. That argument makes no sense.

If Magic/Kareem/Worthy or Jordan/Pippen/Rodman was fair then so is LeBron/Wade/Bosh. The players were smart enough to make it happen instead of begging the owner. Heavens no!!!!

 

I don't think you were responding to my post but I'll just make it clear that I was talking more about LeBron than the whole Miami Heat team itself.

 

Caron Butler is no Pau Gasol. Not even close. You're also talking about trading a 22 year old Kwame Brown who Lakers hoped just had a bad fit in the Wizards, and trading for a 24 year old twice-failed player as the Grizzlies did. Though, the Caron trade was lop-sided (as most NBA trades). It was nowhere near the criminal steal of Kwame for Gasol.

 

I would really appreciate it if you would answer this question for me:

In 1990, who was the better basketball player: Michael Jordan or Isiah Thomas?

Assuming, you answer MJ:

- If, hypothetically, MJ had left the Bulls as a free agent that summer to join the Pistons, who would have been the best player on that team?

If your answer changed from MJ to Isiah, that's just stupid. Just like it's stupid to ignore the fact that Lebron James is a better player than D Wade and changing teams doesn't change that fact.

 

Are you seriously trying to compare Thomas to Jordan? Thomas isn't even considered the greatest point guard, much less the GOAT like Jordan is.

 

Butler was a third year player who had averaged under 15 points per game in his career. He had never been an all-star. Brown was still seen as a guy with a lot of upside because of his size and athleticism. That's why there was no outcry.

There was an outcry when the same Kwame Brown, now having busted for two different teams, was traded for a former all-star who was still in his prime and had been the best player on a playoff team three times already.

 

This is the same Al Jefferson that Minnesota just gave away for almost nothing, right?

 

Was responding to DCKid. I just think it's hilarious that folks think it's ok to get lucky as ish and be drafted on a team with the current MVP (Magic), or get another star through BS trades (Gasol & KG), but something is wrong with a free agent deciding to play where he wants. "Oh, it's ok to play with Kareem because you were drafted there". "You sure are competitive, choosing to play with your HOFers instead of rival HOFers". Silly is as silly does.

 

So, it seems like you are almost championing this. Do you want to see more player collusion? Can you tell me why. BTW, I'm assuming you're a Rockets fan and not a Miami Heat fan.

Also, when did Magic beg the owner, as a rookie? When did Jordan beg the owner to bring in a superstar player in his prime, much less two of them?

 

Wow. You completely dodged the questions and the entire point by bringing up a complete irrelevant point (we were not arguing the feasibilty of jordan joining the pistons), thusly further confirming your logic is s**t.

Argument over, you lose.

 

1. I love it how you assume things when it's not even written
2. I also love how you would assume that I'm dumb enough to ever think that I would have considered Thomas to be better than Jordan at ANY point in their respective careers.
3. I don't think I ever argued the point of who was the best player. I argued the point of who is the LEADER. Don't believe me?

I don't think I ever made an argument that LeBron wouldn't be the best player on that Miami team.

But in order to solidify your appreciation and to answer your question, Jordan was better than Thomas. Does that make you happy because for me to post that for all of CF to read was pretty hard considering I never made any kind of assumptions that I thought Thomas was the better player.

Let's play the bizarro world game and say Jordan did go to the Pistons. Jordan's stance as the best player wouldn't have changed but that team was Isiah's team no matter how you slice it.

If anything, LeBron has made history as being the Best Player on the planet to leave a team that finished with the best record in the NBA two years in a row.

 

Gets it. ^

 

I didn't know I was arguing to win you over?

 

You keep looking at this from a player like Magic's perspective. I really don't give a damn about that. I'm looking at this from a perspective of an NBA fan, who enjoys following the subtle art of NBA team building. I also prefer the team building method because there is a degree of difficulty to it. It can't just happen, as was the case with the Heat. I have no respect for a team built like that.

Can you least try to contradict my assertion that the KG and Allen trades were not "BS." You think trading a fifth pick in the draft for a 32 year old coming off double ankle surgery is a BS trade? Or trading Al Jefferson and two first round picks for a 31 year old player who had literally one year left in his prime. Heck, Al Jefferson put up almost equal numbers to KG in his first season with Minnesota while being 10 years younger. If anyone calls those trades BS they are clueless. They were shrewd trades that were made possible by suffering through many years and acquiring tons of assets. In other words it was impressive team building as opposed to player collusion. One is admirable, the other is cheap.