LeBron can't win it alone? Neither could MJ, Bird or Magic

This would be a good point....if the salary cap didn't exist. All three guys took amounts near the max just so they can fit. Lets not forget that Kobe+Gasol rivals LBJ+Bosh, while the Lakers have Odom,Bynum and Artest in place Dywane Wade.

Its not like the Heat have the only superstar team on the planet. Boston had 5 all-star worthy players last year

 

Because people are trying to hold him to the same standard as MJ, Bird and Magic, without noting that those guys all had hall of fame teammates and LeBron did not.

Though I don't think LeBron should have gone to Miami, and he handled the situation terribly, it's a valid point.

 

neither did dream til his 2nd ring. and Magic had aging all stars on his team. the guy was just phenomenal. i dont really like magic but he made his teammates better. Kobe doesnt have any HOFer either for his last 2 rings. Pau is not going to the HOF neither is anyone else on the lakers not named Kobe, Sasha (4u leibs2002) or Phil Jackson. Lebron had a solid team just an imbecile coach. THAT was the cavs org. fault. Mike Brown. still no reason to say he couldnt win it all next year after they hired a new coach and picked up some help in free agency.

Lebron's a lazy coward. future HOFer, wealthy, great player, prolly future multiple ring owning lazy coward but still a lazy coward nonetheless.

 

Yeah, the 33 points, 14 rebounds, 5 blocks, and 3 assists that Kareem was putting up per game in the first five games of the series didn't help Magic at all.

 

But in this example (see: thread title) we're not comparing him to Kobe, we're comparing him to Bird, MJ and Magic. And part of Kobe's greatness comes from the fact that he won three rings with Shaq, arguably the greatest player of the immediate post-Jordan era.

I'm not crazy about defending LeBron here, but you guys are kind of forcing me to.

 

Which young player should Lebron have molded into his Pippen? Luke Jackson?

 

Again, it doesnt matter. Outside of Boston (who's star players are not in their respective primes), there are NO teams currently in the NBA that have two HOF's (or two players playing at HOF levels). Those days are over. In other words, EVERYBODY can make that excuse now. Cleveland was capable of beating Boston but they're star player backed down. It has nothing to do with Jamison or Williams

 

We should make this a poll. I'd vote for Sasha Pavlovic.

 

I completely agree with your point that the Cavs' biggest problem was their coach. I really wonder how the Lakers would have done these last three years with the same talent but a coach like Mike Brown rather than PJ.

I disagree with you about Pau Gasol's HOF potential, though. If the Lakers win another championship or two, I think he'll definitely get in. This was a team that was going nowhere. He arrived and immediately became the second best player on a team that has made three Finals and won two championships. That's HOF-worthy IMO.

 

Kobe is greater than Lebron even if you take away his first 3 rings with Shaq.

it's stupid to compare lbj to bird, magic, and mj anyway. lbj has done jack ****. he's like a slightly more successful version of tmac at this point.

@SFr: i agree Gasol is good and without him they wouldnt have won but if they never win another championsip he prolly wont get in. as of now.

 

That they're too good and that the reason for it is that they sapped the talents of other teams, both of which are in the same conference.

Doesn't change the fact they're franchise players. Tbh, I hold the same sentiment about the Lakers, though not as much. Boston was old.

 

You're either missing or ignoring the point I'm trying to make.

It's not about comparing, it's about holding him to that standard. The point is, it's unfair to do so, because their respective situations aren't the same.

 

I really shouldn't start this again, but what exactly makes Kobe greater? He's not better at any aspect of the game other than mid-range shooting. His results are better, but if you look at this year's finals, he didn't really play any better against the Celtics than Lebron did.

 

I think the talent level was more concentrated in the 80s, so you basically needed 3 superstars to win a championship. Nowadays you really don't need any more than two or in some cases arguably just one.

Still, in the last twenty years no team had three superstars in their prime of this caliber. So yes, I think relatively this Heat team is the most stacked of the past twenty plus years.

I don't know if I would say a Heat championship means nothing. But to me it will not be near as impressive as a team like the 1993 Rockets who won with a single superstar paired with a bunch of veteran role players.

Also, instantly putting a team together from player collusion just doesn't seem as respectable as a team having patience and putting in the legwork to build up a team through the draft and making seemingly small moves that turned out to be huge, like the Lakers, Bulls, and Celtics did.

I don't see how any self-respecting NBA fan who enjoys the art of championship building can get behind this Heat team. Any accomplishments this team has is pretty cheap in my mind.

 

First off, that hold no weight anymore. Magic was the playmaker on the Lakers, but Kareem was the 1st option. I have NEVER heard anybody say "Magic was only greatness due to having Kareem, arguably the best center of all time". It's ridiculous! Shaq was the 1st option, but Kobe hit almost ALL of the big shots. Being Shaq was a liability late in games, Kobe was still the finisher on that Lakers team. So it was a 50/50 partnership.......

Lebrons team was capable of beating any of the top teams. The Cavs were among the deepest teams in the NBA last year. Just face, the guy isnt quite as good as the media and fans make him out to be. When the pressure goes up, he tends to back away (like game 6 of Boston series ). Thats why you cant compare him to Magic, Jordan or even Kobe

 

his NBA achievements. his scoring barrages putting him up there with Wilt. his rings, his finals MVPs (altho arguably Pau deserved it this year), his ability to start from a crap team(post shaq) and work with mgmt to bring back championships. back2back championships let me add. and we know in houston that back2back rings is a pretty big accomplishment. Please dont make me list all the reasons Kobe is great b/c i puked a little in my mouth and feel generally sick doing this.

 

Oh, really?

 

Where did I say that "Kobe was only greatness due to Shaq"? I said part of his greatness comes from having won three titles with a hall of fame teammate. Which is what this thread is about, is it not? I agree that it was a 50/50 partnership (well, maybe not 50/50.. Shaq WAS more important to that team. Period. He was the better player. Points in the first quarter count just as much as points in the fourth)

I'm don't get why I keep addressing arguments to points I didn't make.

 

Kobe averaged damn near 30pts against Boston..FYI

What most of you guys fail to realize is Kobe won the ring with a BROKEN finger on his shooting hand (that he got surgery on). We're not talking about a sore elbow, a BROKEN finger. This at a stage in his career where he's getting older, so his knees are old too. When you look at they're careers, Lebron might put up better numbers. But he isnt NEAR the closer Kobe has been his WHOLE career (not just one season). Until Lebron learns how to close games (and series), then it's not even close at this point.......

 

I don't deny that Kobe is great. I'm talking about better than Lebron. Kobe's scoring barrages do put him up there with Wilt. But Lebron's across the board stat line the last couple of years puts him up there with a handful of players like Oscar Robert, Larry Bird, and MJ. Lebron doesn't have the championships, but he did turn around a lottery team and make them championship contenders with 60+ wins in consecutive seasons and a Finals appearance.