To expand on this - the NBA made the 30-day waiting rule because they knew players did this. That means they were OK with that, as long as they waited 30 days, right? If they don't want players being waived and re-signing with their original team, why not disallow it in general instead of creating a 30-day waiting period?
Maybe they feel the Nets forking out a $17 million buyout as negotiated by the Mavs is like a hidden cash consideration.
The rule might have been more to protect the Ryan Bowens of the world. However marginal it may be, giving a player only 29 possible teams versus 30 possible teams does limit his options. It's pretty clear it's against the spirit of the rules -- the league made the 30 day rule as a penalty to this kind of action, not as a remedy.
Certainly, but that's the penalty they decided on. And Stackhouse is doing exactly what the penalty was designed for. How can they, in midseason, randomly change the penalty? It's like, in middle of a hack-a-shaq, a referee decides "this isn't how it's supposed to be; let's make fouls result in 4 free throws." You can decide the rules aren't good - but then you change them in the offseason, no?
What is up with all the Mavericks defenders on this forum? Any time the Mavs suffer, it brings me great joy! They are either going to give up a lot for Kidd and mortgage their future, or they are going to be stuck with the same time that will now know for sure management is trying to ship them out of Dallas! Time to celebrate Dallas' demise!
Really- what the heck are all of you defending Dallas for? It seems to me that everyone is just assuming New Jersey would want to get rid of Stackhouse, as if they're not even a factor in this deal. Yet, Rod Thorn tells a different story: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3248598 NEW ORLEANS -- Nets president Rod Thorn said Friday he has no side deal with Mavericks swingman Jerry Stackhouse, an illegal arrangement that could put a potential Jason Kidd-to-Dallas trade in jeopardy. The Nets thought they had worked out a deal with the Mavericks on Wednesday that would have sent Kidd to Dallas, but the trade is on hold because Devean George exercised his right to block it. However, it may have been in trouble before that. Earlier that day, Stackhouse told The Associated Press that he may be able to rejoin the Mavs, an indication the Nets planned to buy out his contract. "I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," Stackhouse said. "I ain't going nowhere." Not so, Thorn said Friday. "I'm perfectly willing to take Stackhouse on my team. You can't make deals like that," he said. "Those are illegal. You can't do that. I'm not going to do it." Thorn said there was nothing new with the deal after talking to George on Friday morning. If the trade does go through, he said then he would talk to Stackhouse about his future plans. "He knows whether he'd want to play for us or he wouldn't," Thorn said. "Until you get a player, you aren't allowed to make any deals." Thorn was surprised the deal was blocked, saying George had asked to be traded earlier in the season. George used his "early Bird rights" in rejecting the trade, a right given only to players on a second one-year deal that gives them a chance to sign their next contract for more than the salary cap allows. Those rights don't carry over if traded. "Allegedly he had asked to be traded a couple of weeks before. Those rights were not an issue when he asked to be traded," Thorn said. "Dallas felt that it was not an issue. Why it became an issue I'm not sure. Obviously Bird rights were not an issue at that time." Neither Thorn nor Kidd could guess the chances the deal, which also was to send point guard Devin Harris, and reserves DeSagana Diop and Maurice Ager to the Nets, would go through. Thorn conceded there was a chance Kidd could still be with the Nets after next Thursday's trade deadline. "Right now it's inconclusive," Thorn said. "All I know is, a deal was made ... we agreed to a deal, we were getting the NBA office [to approve it]. Right now, it's definitely on hold."
Thorn is covering his butt. Where would Stackhouse get the idea that he would be released if not from someone in the know of the Kidd negotiations? He got it from the Mavs and his agent who in contact with both the Nets and the Mavs.
There have been Shady Deals in the past, but people usually don't provide evidence - indication of them. The NBA has been moving in the direction of eliminating loopholes. When a player recites the details as Stackhouse did, the proposed trade is put under an extreme spotlight. I don't think the waive and 30 day wait is the issue, but likely that it is closer to Expertise on the McHale level being on display. NBA FAQ #23 23. Do players and teams ever have under-the-table agreements? What happens when the league finds out about them? Is this what happened with the Timberwolves and Joe Smith? If a team makes a direct agreement with a player that is not reported to the league, the penalties can be even harsher than those described in question number 22. Such a violation is considered by the league to be among the most serious a team can commit. Again, the league will investigate any allegations of wrongdoing. A violation can result in a fine up to $5,000,000, forfeiture of draft picks, voiding the player's contract(s), and/or the suspension for up to one year of any team personnel who were involved. In addition, the player himself can be fined up to $100,000, and prohibited from ever signing with that team. This is what happened in 2000 with Joe Smith and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Smith left the Philadelphia 76ers in 1999 (following the lockout) to sign with the Minnesota Timberwolves for their $1.75 million Mid-Level exception. They made an under-the-table agreement that Smith would play under three consecutive one-year contracts at below market value, and the Timberwolves would reward him by using their Bird rights to sign him to a huge contract beginning with the 2001-02 season. Unfortunately, they reduced this agreement to writing, and the written agreement eventually found its way into the league's hands. It had long been rumored that such under-the-table agreements existed, but this was the first time the league had hard evidence in the form of a signed contract. The league responded by fining the team the maximum (at the time) $3.5 million, taking away their next five draft picks (two were later returned), and voiding Smith's then-current contract. Owner Glen Taylor and GM Kevin McHale also agreed to leaves of absence (in lieu of suspensions, at which time the fifth draft pick was returned). Most interestingly, the league also voided Smith's two previous, already-completed contracts. This essentially stripped the Timberwolves of any Bird rights to Smith, preventing them from re-signing Smith for any salary above the minimum (they had already used their other exceptions). Smith left Minnesota and signed with the Detroit Pistons, but returned to Minnesota in 2001. The possible Under the Table agreement by Stackhouse (and presumably his agent) with Dallas and perhaps also with the Nets is likely the reason why the proposed trade is drawing interest across the NBA. New obstacles put Kidd trade in jeopardy The NBA does permit its teams to consummate trades during All-Star Weekend, but it's increasingly likely that the allowance won't even matter this weekend in New Orleans. All those recent concerns about which team Jason Kidd would play for Sunday -- East or West -- have been forgotten amid the rising possibility that Kidd's expected trade from New Jersey to Dallas won't happen before the league's trade deadline at 3 p.m. ET Thursday. "I'd have to say it's going away," offered one source close to the negotiations. Although NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that the New Jersey Nets and Dallas Mavericks continued to exchange trade ideas Friday, quiet optimism from both sides that a done deal was inevitable after the teams reached an agreement in principal Wednesday has given way to growing pessimism, with obstacles stacking up against the completion of the original seven-player swap. The latest obstacle, sources say, is Dallas' insistence that the Nets take back Trenton Hassell instead of swingman Jerry Stackhouse, whose controversial comments earlier in the week have complicated his inclusion in the trade. Sources say New Jersey, however, has no interest in Hassell, presumably because Hassell's guaranteed salary of $4.4 million for the 2009-10 season is more than double Stackhouse's $2 million guarantee. Obstacle No. 1, of course, was the refusal of Mavericks forward Devean George to consent to being traded, which is George's right thanks to a little-known league rule that prevents certain players with one-year contracts from being dealt without their permission. Dogged attempts over the past 48 hours by the Nets and Mavericks to convince George to relent have proven unsuccessful. Agent Mark Bartelstein has for days maintained his initial claim that "Devean is not inclined to change his stance." And George himself sounds even more determined to stay in Dallas now after Mavs coach Avery Johnson curiously responded to the furor caused by George's decision to play him for a combined 76 minutes in the two games since. "If I can get minutes here, no brainer," George told reporters in Phoenix on Thursday night after logging a season-high 43 minutes in a loss for Dallas, more than he ever expected even with the Mavericks carrying several injuries. "I don't want to go nowhere." Obstacle No. 2, meanwhile, was Stackhouse and what he said Wednesday afternoon when the trade was imminent. "I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," Stackhouse told The Associated Press. "I ain't going nowhere." Those comments prompted a widespread outcry from rival team executives, who contend that the statements prove Dallas and New Jersey have struck an illegal arrangement for the Nets to buy out Stackhouse's contract immediately and thus set him up to re-sign with the Mavs after a mandatory 30-day wait. ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard reported Friday that the NBA has already informed the Mavericks that they won't be able to re-sign Stackhouse if they trade him to New Jersey and the Nets do buy him out, although league officials dispute that. Said NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre: "We are not investigating whether there was a prearranged deal between the Nets, Mavs and Stackhouse at this point." Yet club sources say that Dallas remains convinced that the NBA's reaction would be a harsh one if Stackhouse isn't lifted from the deal, ranging from rejection of the trade entirely to a ban from re-signing Stackhouse to possibly even additional sanctions from the commissioner's office if it tries to keep the 33-year-old in the swap. That's apparently one reason why the Mavericks are intent on replacing Stackhouse with Hassell and trying to solve their George problem by signing-and-trading the retired Keith Van Horn to the Nets along with 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, center DeSagana Diop, guard Maurice Ager, two first-round picks and $3 million in cash for Kidd, forward Malik Allen and possibly guard Darrell Armstrong. For the Nets, though, that's two key pieces -- George's expiring contract and Stackhouse's $6.75 million salary this season -- missing from the deal they thought they were getting. "If he doesn't [change his mind]," Nets president Rod Thorn said of George in Saturday's editions of The New York Times, "it doesn't look that good for the deal." Earlier Friday, Thorn acknowledged that the two teams were still searching for a workable trade combination, saying: "There are a lot of different scenarios that might be feasible." But the Nets, sources say, regard Hassell over Stackhouse as a deal-breaker. And it has not yet been confirmed if Van Horn would be willing to physically report to New Jersey, which league sources say is a must if he's part of the deal. Sources say that the Los Angeles Lakers' recent acquisition of Pau Gasol was only approved by the league office when the retired Aaron McKie -- who was working as a volunteer assistant coach with Philadelphia when the Lakers called to inform him that they had to sign him and throw him in for salary-cap reasons -- agreed to join the Grizzlies as opposed to collecting checks in retirement. Yet it also remains to be seen if the Mavericks and Nets are truly prepared to walk away from this trade after coming so far. Sources say that Dallas has resumed its longstanding attempts to recruit a third team to help facilitate the deal, but the league consensus holds that the Mavs are New Jersey's only realistic suitor for the 34-year-old point guard. Kidd has been quietly hoping for a trade to Dallas all season and was so near to it Wednesday that the Nets held him out of their game that night in Toronto. Yet Kidd told reporters Friday that he'll be "at peace" even if the Nets (and the Mavs) are forced to pretend starting next Friday after the trade deadline passes that nothing happened. "My gut said it was done," Kidd told The Dallas Morning News in New Orleans. "And it's been put on hold. I'm a big believer that things happen for a reason. Whatever happens is meant to happen. I'm a Net right now. But I would love to be a Mav if it works out." Equally eager to see it is the Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki, whose locker room -- still healing from the emotional fallout from eight losses in Dallas' last 10 playoff games -- has been rocked by the near-trade and all of its subplots. Even Kobe Bryant sounded sympathetic to Nowitzki's plight, remembering that it was the Nets and Lakers discussing a deal this time last year that almost sent Kidd to L.A. "I don't know how he's dealing with this," Bryant said of Nowitzki, "[coming] that close to getting Jason Kidd." Close enough for this trade to be resuscitated, then? Said another source close to the negotiations: "The trade might be dying, but this thing has taken about eight turns so far. Who's to say it won't take one more turn?"
The Nets would actually think that Stackhouse has no trade value around the league and would buyout & release him without inquiring around the NBA? Scenarios if Stackhouse was traded to the Nets: Snyder + Francis + Novak for Stackhouse works at the RealGM tradechecker. Snyder + Bonzi + Novak for Stackhouse works at the RealGM tradechecker. Season to taste with either a 2nd round Draft Pick or cash and the Nets would gain more than just buying out and releasing Stackhouse. No idea of how the Rockets plan to manage their Salary Cap for the next several years, so I am hazy on the interest they would have in acquiring Stackhouse. Possibly other playoff teams would also be interested in acquiring Stackhouse for a nominal cost and would offer something to the Nets.
This whole thing would have been a lot better for us imo, if cuban made the trade thinking stack would be coming back, and then after the trade was done new jersey was like uh no, he is staying here.
I know Keith Van Horn stole a lot of money in his career and may not need more, but he wouldn't even be motivated to physically report for a practically free $1 million +? I mean... all he has to do is go to the Nets and hang out for a few months.
All of you guys defending Dallas keep talking about Stack making a side deal with the Mavs, but the real issue is that he's already talking buyout with the Nets before he's become one.
Man, I haven't been reading these threads. I can't believe some of you actually think that Dallas gaining Kidd without losing Terry, Dirk or Howard is a good thing. Not too mention they get Stackhouse back. Gah. In any case, good to see chaos in the house of Cuban.
Word up here this morning is that the trade is dead. The Stackhouse fiasco was the last straw. This one's all on Mark Cuban's head. I have to really tip my hat to him on this one because once again he's managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And I thought his Shawn Bradley deal was bad...
The trade has to be dead. With all this happening there is no way it still goes down. I hope Cuban and the Mavs get fined and lose some Draft picks.
So, let's tally up the body count of (assumed) pissed-off players in Big D: Devin Harris DeSagana Diop Devean George Jerry Stackhouse Maurice Ager Trenton Hassell That's what, 40% of the team? Absolutely beautiful. Good luck with that, Dirk. Your team chemistry has just crashed, Hindenburg-style. The above guys now know just how expendable they are, and you can be sure they'll be looking out for #1 (as well as over their shoulder) for the rest of the season.
was anyone watching TNT? DA was on talking about this trade i think, and mentioned something about Vernon Maxwell? It may be about one of those teams still retaining his rights, and just using him to be traded or something like that. I just need/want clarification.
