His own appointees have attempted to brief him on issues, and discovered that he 1. knew nothing of the issue, even though he should have as President, 2. didn't care to learn about the issue, and 3. ignored them, despite the fact that it was important that he give his opinion. Come ON. Do you REALLY believe this? That Bush knows nothing about anything, and when presented with the chance to learn about it, twiddles his thumbs and doesn't listen? You're smarter than that. I am trying to meet you halfway here. Bush is not an intellectual giant and he's not even been anything more than a mediocre president thus far. But for you to continue to insist that he runs a sloppy, disorganized office and that he knows nothing about anything and won't even attempt to learn... I am beginning to harbor serious doubts about your ability and willingness to acknowledge any positives whatsoever on the part of the right. Based on what I know of Bush as the governor of Texas, I find it illogical and unreasonable to assert that he doesn't know how or won't attempt to run the office efficiently. That does NOT jibe with his track record in Texas, and thus, I lend more credence to reports that the office runs smoothly. [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited June 22, 2001).]
BrianKagy: Come on... why don't you look sometimes at what I do acknowledge? For example, I think that the previous Bush was a very intelligent man. The best foreign policy President since Nixon, who I also admire. Strange to here a liberal say that, isn't it? There are conservatives whom I respect: Scalia, despite being far right, is brilliant. But Clarence Thomas is an idiot. I have respect for Phil Gramm... but none for Kay Bailey. I admire Richard Lugar... but think Trent Lott's a jerk. I'm conservative on some issues, but liberal on the vast majority. I think Bush is absolutely pathetic. I think Gore was extremely mediocre. It's not my fault if many of his own employees have criticized him, is it? ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Haven, that's a nice little laundry list you keep there, but it's irrelevant to the discussion on Bush. That last post sounded like someone saying, "Some of my best friends are black!" There are conflicting reports on Bush's management style. His track record during six years as Texas' governor indicates that he can run an office. You side with reports that indicate that he has miraculously lost that ability in the last five months. I don't think that's reasonable. ------------------ "It's a funny thing, 'friends' You got beginnings and you got ends I guess I'll see you when we're ashes again-- Chris Robinson
Brian (you don't mind me leaving out the last name, do you?): I assume that I was entitled to respond to that remark. Hence the "laundry list." To be honest, until Bush was President, I contented with myself with laughing at him, since I don't take governors very seriously unless a senator dies. I know he *does* have a reputation of surrounding himself with talented people. Perhaps we're both right: maybe he's efficient at coordinating the day-to-day routines, but he's not very proficient at understanding the issues involved, content-wise. So perhaps it's a process vs content argument we're having, truthfully? ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment... [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 22, 2001).]
Haven, Bush was a Dunderhead as Governor, and now the whole world gets to see it, too. ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976
Have you been listening in on my meetings...? I will agree that Bush does not come to the table with an innate understanding of the issues and that he is not a great political thinker. However, I refuse to believe that he is unable or unwilling to pick up an understanding of the issues when presented with the opportunity. I guess we'll have to disagree with this one.
Pine: The other day, two people came into the library and stopped in front of my desk. They looked at a map of the United States that showed the recent census results, in which Texas, NY, and CA are the only red-coded states. One of them said: "man, I didn't realize there were that many people in Texas." The other said: "well, judging by our current President, they're all idiots." Then they turned to me and the 2nd guy asked if I could help him find some data. I smiled sweetly, and replied in my thickest Southern drawl: "Well now, I don't know 'bout that, I's from Texas, and we tend to be mighty slow down ther, I reckon." He just went pale as a sheet. Funniest thing that's happened to me in a while . BTW, how long have you lived in Lufkin? I wonder if we know any of the same people... seems like everyone knows everyone . And if you're active in Democratic politics, that makes it even more likely. ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Brian: There you go belittling Bush's greatest strength! he is not a great political thinker I think that's what he's best, at. He's sort of crafy, imo, like a mediocre left-hand, veteran reliever . Some of the political stunts he's pulled have been beyond Clinton's talent, even . Never seen someone so good at co-opting public attention by engaging in trivial publicity stunts... he's also supremely skilled at confusing issues to at least blunt attacks, and at co-opting Democratic issues with rhetoric. I know those are sort of back-handed compliments... but I do have a sort of grudging admiration for his qualities here. I just wish Bill Bradley had been crafty in the same way! ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Haven, I'm just here at a country place. I live in Houston. This is vacation time. I don't really know many people here, but if they are long time Democrats, I've probably met them some time, somewhere. I've met your two Senators, Messrs K and K, of course. The Lufkin area is very conservative, although Dems still win some elections. Harris county is totally Repub now, but Houston remains Dem, because many areas within Harris county are not in Houston, and those areas not in Houston are heavily Repub. They include all the little cities, such as those in the Memorial Area, Bellaire, West U., and areas of NW Harris county. My neighbors in Houston (actually Memorial area) are overwhelmingly Republican. Brian's and Clutch's point of view on Bush is by far the majority in west Harris County. Am I right, Brian? Gotta go. I hear an ambulance. hehehehe ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976
Pine: Lufkin's district has a Democrat in congress and as a Representative . I interned for Turner's Lufkin office a couple years ago. Granted, Turner's pretty conservative for a Democrat, but McReynolds (state rep) seems like a party liberal. ------------------ Newbiehad... coming to a bbs near you, October 31st. [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 22, 2001).]
Haven, Yeah I've heard of Turner. I knew Charlie Wilson, his predecessor, but don't know Turner. To tell you the truth, I don't want to get hooked up with party types here because I want a respite from all that. Besides, they always hit me up for money, and I get enough of that in Houston and Austin. The federal judge here is John Hannah, an old buddy. Dem appointee, of course. Some day I'll tell you some Begala and Carville stories. How did you end up in Lufkin's congressional office? ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976
There was a great story I heard on NPR where a conservative analyst and a liberal analyst debated how Bush had faired so far in America and Europe, especially considering how his approval rating has slumped. Both agreed that the president seemed fairly capable of running things and that he picked good people to carry out policy. They also agreed that Bush and his aides have found that it isn't his substance that is costing him, but his style. The concept, according to them, of barging in with guns a blazin' has been an almost abject failure, but that Bush is learning that, to use their vernacular, the most important politics "is played between the 40 yard lines." Basically, the substance of what he wants is what will win people over. Ironically, many aides, according to them, and Republican party insiders have said that Bush and his appointees are finding that many of Clinton's policies that fall to the left of center (environment, education, etc) are one's he needs to be more willing to embrace because many of those policies are strongly supported by Americans AND Europeans. Where he can make conservative in-roads are in areas where the country is split or leans more to the right: law enforcement, defense, etc. But, they believe that he will only be able to push these elements of his agenda AFTER he agrees to accept some of the more left leaning policy items. They suggested that those would help people trust him to do "the work of the people" rather than living in the pockets of big business, which is where most of the country thinks he spends the majority of his time. In all honesty, I don't follow politics microscopically. I tend to just skirt it and pay attention to the things that effect me the most or the things I care about. I found this particular conversation to be very interesting because the two men had VERY different ideologies, but similar viewpoints on Bush and the country in general, which I found to be fascinating. ------------------ Things do not change; we change. - Henry David Thoreau
Jeff: Just out of curiosity, how liberal was the "liberal analyst?" NPR tends to get standard (but not radical) conservatives, but only moderate liberals. Of course, I really only listen to NPR in the morning and in the car (which I don't use anymore), so maybe it's different other parts of the day. ------------------ Newbiehad... coming to a bbs near you, October 31st.
My favorite moderate was the late, great Senator Scoop Jackson, of Washington state. He used to say... "I know I'm a moderate because my liberal friends think I'm conservative and my conservative friends think I'm liberal." Here's a tip of my hat to you, Scoop. I miss you. ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976
