I'll support the troops to come back safe and to be taken care of if they don't come back in one piece, physically or mentally. I don't support entitlement cuts for them in some vain attempt to nickel and dime everything except what's killing our budget. If they're ordered to guard torture installations by shadowy and unaccoutable DoD leaders, I'd rather support them than the old men in cigar rooms, who btw are considered part of our troops. Basically I'll support Americans who have been tricked to protect greedy interests and have no choice but to have faith in their institution to guide them home. Because if they can't trust their own in Iraq, who else can they trust? I don't carry this dilemma. I'll support them while questioning the motives of the war they're forced to fight in.
Thadeus & Sishir: Great posts. I don't think I have the stamina anymore to argue about this kind of stuff in here (it never gets anywhere), but kudos to you both for articulating a position very similar to my own.
I support the troops as people, like I support all other people as people. However I don't support a lot of what they do, like I don't support a lot of what the non-troops do. To say they what they do is all good or all bad is a wrong view imo.
How hard is it to understand the very simple distinction of supporting the troops but not supporting the war. The troops did not start this war. They are just following orders. If our troops are fighting an unjust war, then it is us, the American people who have failed THEM, not the other way around.
I disagree. That behavior is too retro. It went out with the Vietnam War. Celebrities may voice their opposition to the war, but they won't do it in a glaring, hyper-media way like Jane Fonda did in the Vietnam War. And the days of US Citizens spitting on troops upon their return? I would hopfully think American society has moved past that point....but then every time I think something like that, American Society does something to prove me wrong.
I think that the "support our troops" is a result of the ugliness of Vietnam. Most Americans do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past and wish to separate supporting the troops from supporting the decisions of the administration that sent them in harms way. Sort of like "don't shoot the messenger". Many Americans may not like the war in Iraq, myself included, but they do not take out any anger on the soldiers who are mere tools for the policies coming out of Washington, DC. Dissent for the sake of dissent is misguided. Dissent is necessary though in order to improve a situation being mishandled.
It's not an editorial, it's an opinion column. It is also satire. Did anyone else actually read the damn thing?? Keep D&D Civil.
When Joel Stein worked for TIME, all he would write was wither funny interviews or personal stories ala Bill Simmons. In fact, Bill Simmons without the sports is exactly how I'd describe him.
I'm right there with you Sishir. Esp on the part of them coming back healthy, alive and back to their family. I want the best for them like I do everyone else. To see someone else undeserving of suffering to suffer pains me. Just like cancer patients or innocent victims of drunk driving. I feel bad. I support our troops meaning, thank you, please come home safely. But I never have and never will support the false reasoning for initiating the war. It's so wrong of our president and I'm ashamed at how many Americans took his word and have followed along.
guess i agree with texx and halfbreed as well. Don't agree with everything he says, but he is honest and has thought it out well. I think people need to have different opinions, a democracy is pointless without them. I also agree with the bumper magnets, those things are pointless and obnoxious, right next to "My semen (or egg) led to the creation of an HONOR student, therefore I must be a good parent! you hear that world? My kid hides my failures! losers!" but again, i respect that those people have their opinions and we wouldn't have discourse without them.
This is such a ridiculous argument. By the same principle then all the chicken little sky-is-falling anti-war crowd should have been camped out on the steps of the Capitol building arm in arm singing kum-by-yah and protesting the war two years ago. According to your logic, if you really believed in your position you'd go chain yourself to some Iraq bound equipment in protest. Give up your driver's license instead of registering for selective service in protest. If you haven't then you aren't really against the war in Iraq. But I guess the anti-war crowd has to draw the line somewhere - better just to harp on a bbs than proving you believe in your stance. Keep banging the peace bongos - but forgive me if I don't feel inclined to 'sit in' to the sound of your hollow thumping.
i hear what you're saying but, there were protests. nyc was a virtual hurricane of "hollow" thumping during the republican primaries. i think the election results took the wind out of many sails.
...and there are people who have volunteered for the military. Not the point. thadeus's position is that a supporter of the Iraqi intervention is suspect unless they themselves have gone to Iraq. That's a huge logical leap that doesn't stand scrutiny. It is also an oft repeated charge by the anti-war crowd that I felt needed to be addressed. Using his logic as a model you would get similarly unsupportable conclusions such as: If you drive a car then you don't really believe in curbing global warming. If you don't teach in the inner city then you don't really believe in improving inner city education. If you claim to support help for the homeless but haven't brought a homeless person to your home, then you are suspect. If you didn't volunteer to go to Bosnia then you didn't really believe intervening to stop genocide there was worth doing. Further, by his own standard unless he's dedicated his life to protesting the intervention in Iraq, he shouldn't be claiming he doesn't support the war in Iraq. He's an arm chair anti-Iraq interventionist and his opinion should be suspect.
Thank you for the signature memorialization, gweens. I had forgotten the forked tongue brilliance that preceded the Seppuku remark which has merited your unending, profane wrath.
You forgot the piece de resistance If you're anti-abortion then it's your responsibility to adopt every unwanted child you can find.
i heard you the first time. but if one did all those things you mentioned, do you think it would amount to any more than a drop in the bucket? are you equating the hopelessness of all those situations with iraq?
