I knew that much when I called u slippery! U meekly argued your points, conceded 1 or 2, disagreed (not refuted) others ... and then declared victory on everything ... again!! Let's try to summarize: 1) We agreed that Yao did not get as many minutes under Larry in some games he played well. 2) We argeed that Yao should not get big minutes in some games that he played badly. 3) You argued Yao did not get big minutes in some games because he was tired. I agreed and suggested ways to conserve Yao's energy. You disagreed and said hell with him. No reason for Larry to find ways to help out his own players. 4) You argued Yao did not get big minutes in some games because the Rox were way ahead. 5) We disagreed that a few more monster games don't make the difference with the ROY voters. Who knows for certainty what they think. There is one thing for sure though, it must look better rather than worse if Yao had more big games. Did you make your case that Yao lost the ROY himself? or did I make the case that Smith cost Yao the ROY by not giving him enough opportunities to do well? I think the truth maybe somewhere in between!
I disagree. But well leave that to others to decide. This statement is too generalized for me to agree with. Nice try. I agreed that there were 17 mins in 3 games where Yao's absence could not be rationally explained. Furthermore, I agreed that taking into consideration those 17 mins, and his per 48 production, the increased production based on that ratio (7 pts, 4 rebs and 1 block) would not have been enough to make a difference in the ROY voters minds. Ummmm ....nope. I did not agree. I said that Yao should not get his normal minutes. There is a big difference between normal mintues and big minutes. Call it semantics if you want. You agreed and suggested we do things that defy basic basketball principles (like doubling down on players who shouldn't have to be doubled in order to keep Yao on the court or not having Yao rebound defensive FTs so that he can rest on the other end. I disagree with this as I believe exceptions should not be made for one player that place the team at a disadantage (having our PFs box out Cs and SFs box out PFs, no doubt, puts us at a rebounding disadantage; doubling down on players like Ostertag, etc. puts us at a disadvatage because that extra defender is needed to double down on players like Malone, etc.) during a playoff drive. BTW, its funny how you want to blame Larry when Rudy NEVER did these things for Yao either. You get on Larry's case for allegedly deviating for Rudy's game plan. Yet, you suggest Larry do exactly that in order to keep Yao on the court (Rudy would not have Yao not rebounding FTs or send him consistant help on a scrub center). Which is a perfectly rational explanation, individual awards aside. Starters usually are taken out, or don't come back in when the game's outcome has been decided. To decide to bring Yao back in and not give him rest (whether its a back to back or a day of rest in between) so that he pad his stats is a highly questionable decision and one that Smith should not be critisized for not making (Rudy never left starters in to pad their stats when the came was decided). In this, lies a blatant contradiction in your philosophy (you say Yao should get garbage minutes in blowouts which is technically deviating from Rudy's playing rotation (I believe that one of your critisizms was that Smith deviated from playing rotations when he should have) as Rudy does not have starters play garbage minutes). I continue to disagree. You picked out 3 games (only 3 games) where his minutes distribution could be questioned. Out of those 3 games, objectively, there were 17 mins taken away from him that could not be explained. I again say, its highly unlikely any stats he put up in 17 mins would have made a difference (Yao lost by 53 points in the balloting; 1 voted = 5 points = 10 writers that had to be swayed). If you really think that 10 writers would be swayed by anything Yao did in 17 mins versus the whole rest of the season, then more power to you. Oh, there is no doubt (except with you) that Larry defintely did not cost Yao the ROY. The only way you can pin blame on Smith is to scrutinize 3 games (where 17 mins were lost total) and suggest that he make exceptions for Yao by not following basic basketball principles (doubling weaker men; not having him rebound - principles that Rudy has never subscribed to (again, this goes back to my point about you blaming Smith for deviating from Rudy's philosophies, yet suggesting he do exactly that to keep Yao on the court)). Furthermore, this is not about placing blame, so I don't feel the need to prove that Yao cost himself (although there are games that you can see where Yao just didn't have it). As a whole, numerous factors went into the lose of the ROY. Here are just a few: 1st and foremost, Amare Stoudamire; 2nd, Yao's poor stamina and performances down the stretch; 3rd, Phoenix making the playoffs and us, not making the playffs. So in summary, I see two viewpoints. One is subjective, suggests highly unorthodox basketball methods (not having Yao rebounding or sending him unecessary double team help), and is based largely on what ifs and questionable could haves (like your arguement where you projected that Yao would have had 24/5/5/ against Denver without taking into cosnidertion the fact that he would have fouled out before those projections came close to being realized) should haves, and would haves (this whole sentence is your arguement in a nutshell). The other arguement is objective (because its based on what DID happen instead of what could have, should have, or would have happened), suggests sticking to team success over the desire for individual awards, sticking to basic basketball philosphies and is largely based on statistics and rational explanations (this is my arguement in a nutshell). I disagree. The truth lies in what actually happened and not what could have happened if things had been different. Truth is not fantasy or the unknown. Blaming Larry Smith for Yao's lose of the ROY is not a credible arguement. It was not proven, anywhere in this thread, that Smith's coaching (with the exception of a loss of 17 mins in the 3 games IMO) affected Yao's performance. The arguement that Yao was tired and beat up and that his performance/production suffered accordingly is a much more credible explanation as all one had to do was watch Yao during one of those games to see that the season was taking a hard toll on him. Furthermore, I would like to point out that I have not seen one, not one article that comes remotely close to suggesting that Smith's coaching was a factor. No one from ESPN, CNNSI, Foxsports, NBCsports, CBSsports, ABCsports, TNT, TBS, the Houston Chronicle or any local TV sections ever muttered a peep about Smith costing Yao the ROY. Even the Chinese media (who is no doubt good at scrutinizing) hasn't seen anything (at least, I have not seen anything posted on this BBS about it). If Smith's coaching was indeed a remote factor, don't you think at least 1 reporter would pick up that ball and run with it? Or are they just as blind as I am? Only prelen (who did nothing but spew incoherent untruths), Yetti (who chose not to debate this subject after being the one who brought it up via a generalized statement), Fegwu (who went off on a Smith hating diatribe, yet contributed zero proof and refused to try and elaborate on his reasoning for his hate filled post) and you (I give you credit, because you are the only one out of this group who chose to at least try and support "Smith=ROY Killer") feel this way. Smith had nothing to do with Yao's loss in the ROY race. I feel quite confident that anyone who takes the time to read this thread, in its entirety, would wholeheartedy (even if they don't want to) agree.
Apparently, you did not read this entire thread or you would no be making such a generalized statement. If it is so "easy", then I invite you to join this discussion and elaborate. Ragingfire has proven it is not easy, and is infact, almost impossible to prove. When and where did Yao say this? If he had openly critisized Smith, I am sure the story would have been picked up by a national media source. If you could, please provide a link or proof that this happened. I don't remember seeing it (I read almost every thread that is posted in this forum). Perhaps I overlooked it. Also, translations on here are iffy most of the time (some posters will translate only to have their translations scrutinized by other Asian posters). In addition, as you said (Chinese media can not be trusted), the Chinese media established throught the whole season that they are rarely objective with Yao or their view of the Rockets. Still, as said before, I have never seen this article that you speak of.
of course, Yao didn't openly critisize Larry to the USA media. He's not that stupid and has said many times to the Chinese media that one of first things he learns about NBA is never critisize coaches and teammates in public. but I guess he doesn't think that rule applies to the Chinese media and particularly his close friend Yang Yi. I'm quite sure that article was posted here(by windandsea if my memory serves me correctly). and there're some attempted translations by other posters. I can't use the search function so I can't find it now. I may be able to find the original article in Chinese but I guess you can't understand it anyway. I don't want to translate it because my English is quite limited. I can read Chinese. I didn't get that impression from those translations, iffy or not. I got the impression from what Yao had to say. so unless you're implying that the Chinese media made up the whole interview by saying the Chinese media are rarely objective, it doesn't matter the Chinese media are biased, in this particular case. I know it's not easy to prove it given the facts available to us. but what Yao had to say makes a big difference. If Yao said Larry's coaching affected his game, I guess it's hard to argue against that. The only thing you can argue is that he didn't actually say that. I believe he did say that to the Chinese media. If you don't believe that, fine, I'm cool.
From being "useless" to "a coach killer", Larry seems to have achieved something. It has almost become an "Official Larry Smith Appreciation Thread"?
Just a question for Yetti, Fegwu, prlen, and other Yao fans. Has anything EVER been Yao's fault? You guys blame other for every shortcoming in Yao's game. If someone says Yao didn't score enough it's becuase the guards won't give him the ball Not aggressive enough in the paint? It's because of Rudy T's bad offense. Missing shot in close? Guards don't know how to get him the ball. Getting in foul trouble? Cause we don't double his man Not getting enough rebounds? Cause Steve takes all his rebounds from him. Didn't win ROY? Cause Larry Smith is stupid and can't coach. I would just like to hear you guys admit JUST ONCE something that was Yao's fault. PS. Fegwu, is there any particular reason why you call Larry Smith THE BLACK HOLE? That term is usually given to someone who won't pass.
I agree with Texas Stoke. How is it Smith's or Rudy's fault if their key players aren't performing? This whole idea is dumb. Smith wasn't trying to get Rudy fired and I believe he was giving his best effort at being HC.
The bottom line is this, people. Larry Smith was a solid player/assistant coach. He was terrible in his rotation decisions, play calling. All he did was let our ball hogging guards iso every play. He also played Cato, a solid backup but a BACKUP, way too much. Same for Moochie's sorry a** (I'm sorry-but a PG that won't shoot a 3 and just dribbles til the shot clock goes down to 8?). He sat Yao in the 4th quarter of almost every game. He has no business head coaching. (This does not mean I don't like LS, just facts) Rudy was a great veteran's coach and we owe him (and Hak) for 2 NBA banners. But he ran no offensive plays and let Francis/Mobley shoot way too much and iso too often. Show me a NBA championship team in the last 20 years that won with their backcourt taking most of the teams shots. (Except MJ-who was a freak). We need to run the insode/outside game and TRADE Mobley.
The bottom line is, we ISOd VERY little last year. Amazing how so many people on here don't know what an ISO is.
To explain myself, I have wanted Moses Malone for Yao Ming ever since he offered himself as a Coach. Larry Smith, with limited number of games left and a team still trying to make the playoffs,came in as caoch and decided not to follow the game plan of Rudy T. He tried to make his own mark as a coach and in doing so, interfered with Francis and Yao Ming. He didnt like Yao Mings game but favoured Catos more athletic crazy style of play. He sat Yao Ming for long periods of time, although he was going for ROY. Larry Smith tried {at the wrong point of the season} to change Yao Ming into a more agressive player, he was unable to respond and Smith ruined his chance at ROY. Larry Smith should not(at this late stage) have tried to change or reorganise players,their mind set or game plays.Larrys ways were not the ways of Rudy T and we didnt make the playoffs, Yao Ming didnt get the ROY and Rudy T was fired.
