It's harder to accuse Pujols of anything because there actually is steroid testing today and a result he gets a shred of legitimacy. Also, Bagwell never hit 50 homers because he was playing in the dome. I guarantee that he would have multiple 50 homer seasons and would have already hit 500 if he had been playing in MMP.
You didn't consider that he only played 110 games in 1994. That was clearly his best year and I believe he won the MVP that year. I agree that ealry 2000s he had slightly better stats, but it also coincided with the opening of Minute Maid park. Arguably he wasn't any better if you adjust for that. Overall I agree with your point that his stats were consistent and there wasn't any steroid spike.
You can't really just look at someone's body and the way it broke down. By that logic guys like Shaq and Olajuwon would be suspected. Shaq is way bigger than he used to be and always has some sort of injury.
So, these guys are guilty because they worked out and got big muscles? Guilty until proven innocent? That is not how the country, that you love, works. Bonds is innocent until proven guilty. The media is not the judge and jury so quit reacting to what they say. Until he is proven guilty, enjoy the ride. Records were made to be broken. You all know this, but when it happens you don't want it to? Maybe Babe corked his bat but never got caught? It doesn't matter, but a corked bat doesn't hit homers, it only helps. What Babe, Bonds and Aaron have done, is amazing, no matter how they got it done. Think about it this way. Babe had worse pitchers throwing at him than Bonds, at a slower pace and with less variety. No one had 5 pitches to use in a game back then. Babe had some advantages too. Do you think that pitchers had video of babe to do detailed research on how to strike him out? Don't forget the other side of the story. Stop looking at things only one way, that's not a true story. A true story is multi-faceted. The bottom line is that Barry is doing it. People probably hated Babe because he was a drinker and partied. He was ruining their good ole' past time as well. Time changes and the game changes with it. Fans don't seem to know what they like unless it's in the past. Enjoy the present. Go STROS!!!
i agree. couple of thoughts here: 1. bonds is the greatest hitter i've ever seen. he's had an absolutely amazing career. 2. i think you can only judge players worth as measured against the people they played against. no one was more dominant than Ruth. no one. the guy out-homered every other team in the league when he hit 60. every other TEAM. one man. that's sick. oh, yeah...and he kicked ass pitching, too.
I can relate to the last past of your post. When I was in high school, I thought about using steroids for "good looks" (physique benefits) because we all were told that that was how body builders sculped their bodies. I eventually did not - I ended up lifting weights on my own without aid. This was back in the late 1980s. But I have a question for y'all: 1. Is "Greenies" illegal? 2. Was it immoral for the jocks who boozed heavilly during the Prohibition Era/period of the early 19th century? Did it give those jocks any sort of advantage? 3. When can we really say illegal substances entered baseball? 4. Playing 140-162 games every year will take a toll on anyone. I believe baseball is the most underrated sport in terms of physical toll. Now I ask - is possible to play in the Major leagues for a long time without "help" and be able to sustain a healthy level of excellence? 5. Do you think we there will be ever a test for HGH? 6. Do you think illegal substances will ever leave the game? 7. Finally, how bad do you think illegal substances still is now in MLB - including pills, roids, HGH and others we do not know of. Thanks in advance for your response.
Our values are indeed decaying as a societly. But, are you seriously telling me that the Babe was a good man? Do some vices offend you more than others? Ask his wife is he was a good man. How about Mickey Mantle or Ted Williams, what kind of guys were they? There were jerks back then as much as there are today, and the Babe and Ty Cobb head the list.
He drank heavily & cheated on his wife...still I wouldn't put him (or most anybody else) along side Ty Cobb in the jackhole category.
1. What the heck is greenies 2. It is not immoral in the same sense as roids, because, no, alcohol does not give one a performance advantage. 3. We can estimate that there was more widespread use in the '90s. 4. Yes, look at Ted Williams or Craig Biggio. 5. Yes. 6. Not completely, but their use can be reduced. 7. I think it was pretty bad in the '90s but much reduced today, as evidenced by normal looking batting stats.
His best year was actually the strike and injury short year of 1994. In fact, his year in 1994 ranks as one of the greatest individual years of all time by any player in any era.
1. Is "Greenies" illegal? - certain amphetamines are legal if prescribed by a doctor. Ritalin is the new upper/focus-aiding drug of choice in MLB, btw. Biggio takes it, as do many, many others. 2. Was it immoral for the jocks who boozed heavilly during the Prohibition Era/period of the early 19th century? Did it give those jocks any sort of advantage? Immoral? No. Illegal? Sure. A very large percentage of citizens back then broke the law with regularity. 3. When can we really say illegal substances entered baseball? - widespread amphetamine use began in earnest in the late 50's/early 60's. 4. Now I ask - is possible to play in the Major leagues for a long time without "help" and be able to sustain a healthy level of excellence? - It's definitely harder, and the greenies helped a whole lot of players get through the grind. Steroids helped some as well. Of course it's possible to go without; many, many players played clean - or "naked" in baseball parlance (and I'd say many more do now). 5. Do you think we there will be ever a test for HGH? - Someday, I'd imagine drug testing in American pro sports will be similar to what is used in Olympic/international competition. I'd hope so, at least. 6. Do you think illegal substances will ever leave the game? - No. 7. Finally, how bad do you think illegal substances still is now in MLB - including pills, roids, HGH and others we do not know of. - Not as bad as before, but not eliminated.
Agreed. But putting him on a pedestal as some kind of saint is naive and inaccurate. Dude did more than have an affair; he was a hall of fame womanizer. He's no Cobb, that's for sure, but he ain't Orel Herschiser (sp?) or Craig Biggio or David Robinson, either.
A couple folks pointed that out; and you all are right. I still don't see a spike in performance comparable to our notorious juices; and secondly 1994 predates the real explosion in offensive numbers we call the "juiced era". Bagwell was freaking amazing. I really, really miss that guy.
if bags was on steroids he probably was most of his career so I don't think you can really separate his seasons. I mean the "juiced era" really is irrelevant, steroids have been in baseball a lot longer according to canseco, and even though he has almost zero credibility he is credible on that subject.
bagwell was my favorite player growing up but there is no way that guy was not on roids. you don't get that big and then lose all that muscle (see spring training this year) and not be on something. i still bagwell would have been a great player off roids, kind of like how giambi is now, but he was definitely on something.
I've never heard anybody call him a saint. His public life off the field is a big reason he became an icon, though. He was what he was: larger than life, and you take the good with the bad. Michael Jordan cheated on his wife too, and had gambling problems...Churchill & Hemingway were drunks (Hemingway a world class womanizer as well), the list of giants who had their personal demons is almost endless. Nobody's perfect.
It's absolutely possible for that to happen. Many NFL players shrink down a ton after they retire & stop working out like madmen. By all accounts, Bagwell's workout routine when he was healthy was insane. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We have no idea, and speculation is pretty pointless.
Thanks Buck and Mr Clutch for your response. Mr Clutch I believe Buck has answered the Greenie question - it is just an amphetamine (nervouse system stimulant) pill that is green in color. Baseball is a really deceptively hard sport. I believe it is harder than football. I say this to hint that I kinda understand why there is a wide spread use of "aids" in the sport. Like Don Grahamleon interestingly stated lets enjoy the times and baseball as we know it because we will always find faults with the past players. What we can do is clean it up going forward and improve from here on out.
Riiiiiight... it had *nothing* to do with the fact that he had to go SIX MONTHS without any lifting--a guy who had been a heavy lifter for 15 years. Nah, that had nothing to do with it at all.
