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Lance McCullers

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by jim1961, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    "Big-league pitching — legitimate, starting, big-league pitching — does not grow on trees," McCullers said Sunday while discussing a potential extension. "And I'm a legitimate big-league starter, and I've worked really hard to get to this point."

    https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/arti...227299?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=sportspyder

    The article just illustrates the point I want to make and the questions I have. I have no doubt as to how hard he has worked, but can he call himself a legit starter (going forward) having never pitched more than 128.1 innings in his now 5 year career (will be 28 years old this fall)?

    Don't get me wrong, he has the stuff. He has been a starter in the past. But going forward? Are we in for a ego vs reality showdown with Lance?

    Opinions.
     
    #1 jim1961, Feb 28, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
    vince likes this.
  2. msn

    msn Member

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    I'm tired of these athletes negotiating via the media. Get your agent and sit your ass down at the table. This isn't Survivor; I don't want to hear all the melodrama.

    As far as LMJ; what he's a proven is that he's a legit fragile MLB starter who's never even thrown 150 innings in a season (or did he do it once?). Sounds like a 'legit' candidate for back end of the bullpen to me.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Lance has always had a massive ego. Starting his sophomore year there were articles saying he may go #1 in the draft.

    He has the stuff, just not always the command and some of his pitching sequences are poor. Couple that with injuries.

    I like him, but he seems to believe he has accomplished more than he really has and has discussed money numerous times in the past over the years.

    I don’t have any direct information from the Astros about his salary demands but I would expect they are rather high based on some of his past actions and comments.

    He is someone that still has unrealized potential. He could become a really good #2 pitcher for years or he could end up with command issues and DFA.

    His confidence and even delusions are good for the Astros as a player, Correa is like that too. They never think they “can’t” win or do something. The only down side is when contract negotiations start.

    I have an attachment to Lance (like I do Correa) and would love them back at a truely fair contract but I don’t see an extension happening.
     
  4. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    I’d be shocked if McCullers was extended. He obviously has a TON of confidence in himself and always expects the next season to be the one where he breaks out. To him, every good thing that happens is earned, every bad thing that happens is just bad luck. I say that as a fan of his (I have a signed Greeneville Astros shirt from him). It would not shock me if he was demanding $100M, even though the reality for him is that even if he has a good healthy season there is no way he will get that.

    If (huge if) he throws 160+ innings with his usual stuff then he might be looking at something like $70M/4yrs. But if he gets hurt or has a bad year he will be looking at a make-good deal. At this point I am just hopeful he has a career year so that Houston benefits this season and can get a QO draft pick out of him.
     
  5. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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    Don't forget that he has ice running through his veigns. ❄️❄️
    I would love to keep lance. What's a good comp from the past couple of years salary wise?
     
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  6. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    In a best case scenario for McCullers, maybe Alex Cobb? He was inconsistent and had TJS, finished with a decent year and got $57M/4yrs from the Orioles.
     
    #6 Snake Diggit, Feb 28, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  7. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    If Taijuan Walker can get 10 million a year for 2 years I would expect McCullers to land somewhere around 12-15 per year for more years. So maybe 4 years for 52 million with some incentives based on innings or starts.

    Not a ton of comps out there. Bumgarner got 5 years 85 million but he threw 207 innings the year before he hit free agency with a 3.90 ERA and 1.127 WHIP.

    I'd rather not extend Lance this offseason and if he has a career year throw a qualifying offer on him. Too much risk for a guy that has never topped 130 innings.

    Not a bad comp, but Cobb threw 179.1 innings with a 3.66 ERA and 1.221 WHIP in his free agent year. Maybe with inflation since that contract is 4 years old that is about right.
     
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  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    There are similarities between Lance and Carlos. I was thinking of Carlos when I saw this article. With both of them, it seems every year we want to re-gauge their worth only to have that year pass and the next year arrive with the same questions.

    If I was GM, I am not sure I want to extend either one of them. But I would extend Carlos before I would Lance if there was a gun to my head.
     
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  9. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    It’s almost time to say goodbye. Go win that CyYoung award somewhere else.
     
  10. awc713

    awc713 Member
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    I’m not putting too much stock into Lance’s comments. I actually like that he and Carlos are being as vocal as they are about wanting an extension. The fact that they want to be in Houston for years to come is good. Lance is entitled to think he’s worth whatever he is...at the end of the day Click has their number on any player and won’t go beyond it.

    And for all his durability concern, fans can’t ignore that he balled out and legit ruined his arm, pitching through injuries in 2017 to our WS ring. His G7 curveball fest is probably my favorite pitching performance ever. Hats off to Lance, putting his body on the line when it mattered most and likely to the detriment of himself. I hope we’re able to keep him...he really does ride for Houston more than 99% of athletes that come to town.
     
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  11. punkoholic

    punkoholic Member

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    I would welcome him back at a fair price. If he doesn't like Click's offer, let him test the market and see if he circles back to Houston after he doesn't see a offer he likes from another team. Can't wait for McCullers to sign while other options becomes unavailable so I would also set a deadline.
     
  12. Mr.Pringles

    Mr.Pringles Member

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    McCullers would have to be a top 5 Cy young finalist this season if he’s to receive a contract over JV or Grienke. Not much room left and even less if Whitley proves himself. Already 3/5th of the rotation is booked.
     
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  13. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    Combine that with the fact that Boras is his agent and I seriously doubt we'll see him in an Astros uni after this season.
     
  14. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    By any measurement his results have been good. He's had solid postseason results too (save for his TJ season, he's been a positive contributor to every postseason). But on the flip side he always misses starts, and isn't gonna get you deep into games. Even if he manages to throw 180 innings this season, I can't imagine any team is gonna pay him like a full time front end starter.

    It will be interesting to see what the market is for a limited arm in 2021. Teams are much more creative with their use of arms now than they've ever been.
     
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  15. vince

    vince Member

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    He’s talented. At times he’s looked like legit ace. But injuries are too often for him. Maybe the pitches you chooses, such as the bugs bunny curve are making him prone to frequent injuries.

    I want the Astros to resign him, assuming the numbers make sense. But I doubt the Astros give him the type of contract he may garner from another team.

    I will be sad if McCullers isn’t resigned.
     
  16. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I am sure there is a number that makes sense for Lance and another for the Astros. What I wonder is how far apart these two numbers are.
     
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  17. awc713

    awc713 Member
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    The Astros direly need Lance to step up if Framber is in fact out for an extended period. We really need him to pitch like an SP2 and eat innings with more consistency. I’m sure the Astros brass wants Lance to up his value now more than ever and make it a tough decision this off-season.

    As an aside, I know CF is breeding grounds for arguments and disagreements, but there should be no LMJ slander tolerated here. He has his share of issues (like any professional athlete)...and maybe he’s not be worth what he thinks he’s worth...but go cheer for the Rangers or something if you don’t support our boy Lance. Consummate professional...was essential in several playoff runs...hopefully this is the year he really puts it all together.
     
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  18. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    How about the time he showed up Yuli on the field after he made an error and Altuve had to lay the law down in the dugout? How about last year when he gets lit up by the Dbacks and blames it on the roof opening up?

    He's an Astro so I will root for him, but he hasn't been a "consummate professional". Try a different phrase to describe him. I hope he steps up. I hope he wins 20 games, but he's not what you called him.
     
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  19. awc713

    awc713 Member
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    By consummate professional I was talking mostly about his off the field conduct. He has been beyond a model citizen since drafted. He does a ton of charity work—not only through his own foundation—but also chips in on other ventures/philanthropies. His foundation speaks for itself, but he’s worked for countless causes, also notably with Big Brothers Big Sisters Greater Houston...he’s donated a ton of time and money into this community. A sound argument could be made that LMJ goes beyond that which most athletes do when it comes to charity and the community. He is a consummate professional in my book. I don’t give a damn about a bad outing here or there. I don’t care about mental errors tied to passion. Every freaking player—and person—has flaws and make errors based on passion. If you have a bad outing you can’t be a consummate professional? I guess baseball has none, if that’s the case. Lance has been a standup professional with the media and fans as well. He wears his heart on his sleeve, and yeah, he’s loud. But he’s everything I want in a professional ball-player. He really cares about the community, and if you can’t see that, and can only see his faults in between the lines, then I feel sorry for you. I’m not saying he’s a godsend or beyond criticism as a player, but his work in Houston, both on and off the field, should yield applause and he really shouldn’t get local slander if you actually know about the work he’s done in the community. I guess everyone is entitled to their own definition of “consummate professional”, but I don’t think it’s tied strictly to what happens in between the lines.
     
    #19 awc713, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  20. htownbball

    htownbball Member

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    With a strong year and 175 innings, maybe McCullers get a contract like Nathan Eovaldi (4 years $68M) which sounds crazy town doesn't it? Low end would be something like Sonny Gray which was 3 years $30M, mid point would be something like Danny Duffy at 5 years $65M. I don't think McCullers gets more than 3 years and if he puts up a strong year, maybe he gets 3 years $36-40M
     
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