If its marginal contact that would not have dislodged an honest defender, than it should not be called a foul. That's the problem with flopping. And, no goodbug, Artest is absolutely a flopper.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nzkffOLUuyQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nzkffOLUuyQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
In fairness to Artest he didn't necessarily flop on that play. His foot twisted and probably caused him to fall back. Though I agree, Artest does flop(who doesn't at this point).
Which one is more obvious? Artest flopping or Allen handchecked Kobe numerous times on the last possession? Artest is a tough dude, he's too proud to flop like Varejao. But if he's tripped even a slight push can make him lose balance. Not saying he didn't sell it, but it's not marginal in any count.
I can blame Allen and KG for this game. Let's face it. Celtics are like the Spurs, they are OLD. Rondo and Pierce are playing really well but KG doesn't look like he is even at 75% and Allen is as inconsistent as you can be. Then need to sit KG or do whatever you have to do, because he is the key. He is no longer a defensive player and he has been dissappearing on offense as well. And as for Allen. He has to make wide open 3. He got a great wide open shot to win this game and missed. You gotta like his defense but with him going 2/10 they are going nowhere. And that was a bad call on Pierce. 100% flop by Artest. Once Artest saw his arm comming, he just felt down. That's all.
I don't get why people are debating here between marginal contact or not... Kobe has been called for this same offensive foul, marginal or not, late during games... The rule isn't whether it's marginal or not, it's if the offensive player extends his arm to push off a defensive player (in this case what Paul Pierce did to Artest REGARDLESS OF HOW ARTEST REACTED), it is an automatic offensive foul. You can't sit there and say this wasn't an offensive foul when it clearly was... and if it's marginal it shouldn't be called late in games? Nonsense.
yea garnett looks noticable slower, pierce still has confidence but is aging, even kobe at 31 has to come up with new ways but he'll do it... I was at the game by the way in boston, amazing to see kobe live his that shot and this matchup which was physical as hell, rondo looks like their best player and ray allen isn't done like many would think, this system just isn't good for him, even going 0-6, i read an article about how some shooters could start cold, keep shooting and end thenight 10-22 or something just start hitting in streaks, but because of the team hes in hes not going to get 20 shots a night thus making it hard for him to get hot here and there knowing he might not get to shoot again hes still athletic and can keep up with anyone, plays great d and is the best pro, i would love to have him on the rocks
I'm waiting to see the highlight where this was called on Kobe. Waiting to see it called on someone other than Pierce. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PRCTp57LQro&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PRCTp57LQro&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Thats right. They added the illegal to extend your arm foul call after this game. I'm waiting for your evidence on this being called a foul elsewhere.
And I'm wondering what idiot what put up a video of an offensive foul.... Pierce has had this same call gone against him before... yet there aren't too many videos showing it... Officiating was different in the 90's... people could get away with murder on the perimeter... offensive player or defensive player.... That was a playoff game, this is a regular season game... there's just some much that goes into that game vs. this game.... I don't know what you're trying to prove with that video anyway.
The rule book says: "The mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul. Contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to play an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal." My interpretation of this is if your arm swings up and it brushes a defender, that would not, in itself, be an illegal play if the contact does not give you an advantage. This is considered "incidental". If Artest was actually pushed or somehow his ability to stick with Pierce was impeded by the forearm, that's a foul. Maybe that's what happened. I thought differently when watching it on tv. Also, in my opinion if you flop the benefit of the doubt should go against you.
It was a foul. The only reason he pushed off was to get that extra space on his jumper that he didn't have the athleticism, skill, or intelligence to get without it. I don't how hard he did it, but he did it and it had an affect on how Artest was defending him. Did Ron flop? I don't care and I don't see how it matters. It's an unfair advantage that the refs give Pierce all the time, and I'd like to see them take it away.
lost in this paul pierce debate is how difficult the Kobe shot was. Also in the clutch, this guy is the real deal.
I watched the game and honestly I've seen him do that move dozens of times...I'm shocked you haven't picked up on it. Maybe if it was someone else I would give them the benefit of doubt and consider it incidental contact.
Kobe was called for an offensive foul on T.Allen earlier in the same game. He didn't even extend the arm, just the elbow, and the JVGs were talking it's a bad call. That happened in 2nd quarter I believed.
The step back maneuver can create an illusion of a push off when its not really there, simply because bodies are going in opposite directions. We know that the step back is Pierce's pet move, so I understand why you may think he "gets away" with pushing off a lot. And, in some of those cases, maybe that's true. Like you said, there is some doubt on the extent of the contact. And Artest's falling backwards to sell the play doesn't help get to the truth of it.
