From everything we've seen and heard, the Rockets have shown loyalty towards Shandon that indicates they have some type of agreement (verbal, good faith, or whatever). Shandon signed with the Rockets when other teams were offering him more money. He signed here probably with the understanding that he would be a starter without exception. I think that at some point in the season we would have seen a starting lineup of Francis, Mobley, Williams otherwise. I believe every word of Oeilpere's account of Maurice's situation. His current contract benefits both parties involved and I don't know why they would have guaranteed him anything long term because everyone is aware of the CWebb situation. One thing I can't see happening is Maurice signing for less than the max for the long term as long as he is being represented by Falk. Maybe a one year contract for less than the max only if he is unable to get a better offer elsewhere. He could then play one more year and be a FA again. I also don't know why the Rockets would lock up so much money at the PF spot by signing CWebb AND Maurice. After seeing Hakeem's resurgence and also seeing Mutombo's incredible play at the all star game I am convinced of the necessity of a good center. There is no replacement (2 excellent PFs < 1 excellent PF and 1 better than average Center). I don't believe that Maurice could play the SF spot and I can't imagine us getting a good center with those two contracts. So.... what about deciding between CWebb for the max on a long term OR Maurice for 1 year @ $6 million. ------------------
Or what about just sending Maurice off to the Raptors for Davis? Why didn't that happen before??? Was it the dollar value??? ------------------
The dollar value is one thing. Mo has been playing better then Davis has been, especially within the Rockets style of play, and Davis is a FA this season and making it clear he wants to play in Orlando, close to his family. Mo is fitting in well with us, it would make no sense to screw up the team chemistry and send him off for a PF who is less likely to stay. ------------------ Dream a deadly Dream. . . [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited February 28, 2001).]
I think Mo will only get the max if he CAN. He wanted big bucks last offseason and found no real takers. Plus, Falk wouldn't have let Mo pass up all that money in Toronto if the Rockets hadn't said they would be loyal to Mo and reward him for signing for less. The thing is that the Rockets don't have to tell players or agents that they will be loyal or even tell them what they will pay him. They have proven in the past they will do it and it has provided them a great reputation among players. Mo, at this point, is not deserving of the max, and, if we've learned anything, teams don't just sign players for the max anymore especially with the impending luxury tax situation coming this summer. ------------------ "You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY! - Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards
Jeff, don't forget about the "King Kong" trade that preceded the Rockets acquiring Maurice. Mo was going to sign w/ the Raptors and then Falk pulled him out of that to try to land Mo and Ewing in Seattle. ------------------
Lets clarify a few things: 1. taylor's Worth? MoTaylor may or may not be worth the money his agent will ask for, it depends on any team's needs and what they will be willing to pay. However, I as stated, the Rockets are looking at him in a far different light than what they saw his role at the beginning of the season. Maurice also sees the benefit of staying where he is next season. He would be more inclined to take a little less than market to remain a Rocket. 2. "I doubt we will even be in the running for CWebb" and I remain doubtful. Think (read: wish) what you want.. Dub has said several times he wants to be "comfortable" with a team, he wants a team that is either at a different (read:higher) level or will challenge consistently every year, he wants a "seven year contract", he denies wanting the "most money available" but then counters with he "expects to get offered it ( " the highest possible remuneration), he has had limited discussions with his owners but they have said time and again they will pay him whatever it takes. Add to this that, the Kings are finally an emerging team. They are competitive, have a good nucleus of players and a good long term plan. They are respectable in the media despite being such a small market. 3. Webb's choices will be to stay where he is. Big possibility. Probably holding the most percentage of any other move. Go to New York for the money and glitter, but certainly no guarantee of a championship, a very volatile long term game plan, a coach that hangs on to his job every year only because of stirring playoff performances. Dub could go to Florida in any number of combinations. The most obvious is joining Zo and Ewing(rest assured Patrick will be in Miami next year) as the 3 in a formidable Riley roster. 4. But the point is: Why would CWebb walk into here. The Kings are very similar to the Rockets right now. It could be argued that we accomplished in two years of rebuilding what the Kings have been attempting for a decade. That's arguable, but not far off. I agree that if it was possible to hold Mo or get someone similar to him, and add Dub as the three it would play well with our expected roster next year and several years forward. But what do we offer him, other than a similar game to the Kings? More importantly, due to the similarity in promise, play style, competitiveness and assuming we were able to pay the price ….. why shouldn't he just stay where he is? IMHO we are at best fourth or fifth on his list. And the space between one(Kings), two (Knicks), and third (Florida - Miami/Orlando) is widening, but it is way in front of "all others (which includes us)" . PS: I think that the (wink-wink, nudge-nudge)deal between the Rockets and Shandon has more foundation than any such surmised deal with Maurice Taylor. However, I do think that both will be treated with equal respect and honor if either of these guys decide to stick with the Rockets. In other words, even if MoTay's agreement is not as set as Shandon's, he will be treated with the same "handshake honor". More importantly Maurice KNOWS this. ------------------
With respect, Oeilpere, I disagree. I say sign Mo if Webber passes on us. But I don't think he will. When someone says, "I'm bored to death here," and "I want to be somewhere I feel comfortable" and "I want to finish my career with my next contract" (i.e., not change teams again), I don't get the impression of someone who wants to stick around. He never unpacked his stuff, he has no serious relationship, he's more withdrawn from his teammates lately (and I'm not referring to the injury that keeps him from playing). Why does everyone have this New York inferiority complex? New Yorkers think the sports world revolves around them. We don't have to buy into it. Besides, the Knicks are getting old and have horrific cap problems, as the recent NY Daily News article pointed out. Chris could find himself in the latter part of his "great years" (31, 32) with other aging stars around him, rather than, say, a 26 year old Francis and 27/8 year old Mobley. Nope. As far as playing in Miami goes...again, nope. Miami will sign Ewing. There goes the 4.5 million exception. And Brian Grant fled Sacramento years ago; I don't think he'd stand for being traded back to the Kings. And Orlando? Maybe they could swing a deal, but Chris wants $$$, and Orlando doesn't have the contracts to make it work. And Chris won't sign for an exception. I also like Mo. But what is loyalty? If compunction causes us to choose Mo over Webber, then we can look forward to a long road of 6th-seed-playoff-at-best-seasons. "Well, Mo's a great kid and coachable and we can probably get him a lot cheaper than Webber, despite David Falk, so let's sign Mo and lose Hakeem and have only Cato at center and be truly mediocre." Detroit will lose out on Chris. Detroit can sign hometown Mo (who's upped his personal stock in this year with the Rockets) with its beaucoup cap space and even grab a second big name free agent, like Doug Christie, who can opt out (and just might if Webber leaves). Webber's coming here to play with Steve and Cat. I don't just say it because I'm a homer. Warm weather, urban lifestyle, diversity. Yeah, I'll stick to my guns on this one. IF Webber forces a trade East, then it will only be because he either folded under public scrutiny or doesn't want to face the Sac-town fans and former teammates four times a year (I know he really likes the team). But even then, I say he's coming to Houston. ------------------
Webber resigning with Sacramento seems pretty likely to me also, but for speculation purposes, what if he signed with the Rockets? I think that then signing Mo would be a huge mistake despite any loyalties that may exist. Can you imagine your three best forward/centers being Shandon, Maurice and Webber? I just don't think that lineup can work. In my opinion Cuttino is the starting 2 guard for a long time despite any ballhogging or poor judgement. He earned the spot the hard way and Rudy isn't going to ever take it away. That means that Shandon is the SF for a long time if he resigns.... So what do we have?... the smallest frontcourt that the NBA has ever known? I'm sure that Rudy has a big picture idea that I don't understand (he must or we aren't going to get much better). One strategy in personnel is to just get the best players that you can, but in the situation that the Rockets are in with all of these "loyalties" combined with our specific needs I can't see how everything is going to work out.
What does Rudy want the team to look like in two years? Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Taylor, Jackson? (everybody happy) Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Webber, Cato? (betray Taylor) Francis, Anderson, Rahim, Taylor, Reeves? (betray Francis) Francis, Miles, Odom, Webber, Woods? (all-out personal attack on NBA players assoc.) I know it is completely impossible to ask questions like that seriously, but the real question I am asking is, how deep do these pledges with FA's go and how are the Rockets going to honor them and make roster moves at the same time? It seems to be a little ridiculous.
I think we do have a chance for Webber, and I also wonder how will shandon work out at 3, I'm never negative, but I just hope the size problem doesn't .. well.. become a big problem.. ------------------ against all odds
Common sense says he should stay. He's already on a winning team. But Glen Rice left his team, even after getting a championship. A player and team don't always fit in together, for whatever reasons. And Chris is calling the shots. I don't want to get in trouble or make race an "issue," but that has something to do with it here. Chris probably feels like an American in a foreign country. The people are nice, he feels welcome, but he's not entirely comfortable. "The fish bowl effect" he calls it. I just think playing and hanging out with Steve, Cat, Shandon, et al., is something he would look forward to. Certainly he can win rings with our bunch. The Chicago Tribune had a nice article yesterday by Sam Smith. Disinformation artists can dupe him into writing the untrue---"Fizer and Artest for Szerbiak and Avery"---but yesterday's article sketched out his own reasons he believes Webber could go to Houston (he was comparing hometown Chicago's failed rebuilding to Houston's success). This doesn't mean he's right, of course. I'll post some of his comments later; I don't think the Tribune web site has them down yet. ------------------
All great posts guys. To clarify: I said I doubt CWebb would end up here and stand by that. However, I would like to see him in our uni. I would also be remiss if I didn't point out that by spending the bank on him in a maximum long term contract, we would be setting in motion a limited reentry into the market for the near future. CWebb's max, Shandon's commitment, Stevie's re-up, mainatining role players (like Mooch(he's going to be expensive some sources tell me), etc) ... while shopping for a premiere(or near-premiere) center would be confining if the max for Webb is paid. And it will be, regardless where he goes. I am not saying this is bad, just inevitable. Look, one of the things that has always seperated the Rockets from other teams, the one thing that we were always able to do, was to keep our players happy AND still keep their salaries around the mid range starters price tag($4-$5.5 M max - except for our perennial two superstars - Hakeem/Sampson, Hakeem/Clyde, etc... ). This kept the salaries manageable and also afforded the front office(now CD) the flexibility to easily trade one or two when required. This has been illustrated several times over the years. Now however we have so many committments for big dollars, that simply getting the chance to sign Webb is not the end of the decisions to be made. I fear some of those committments will be in jeopardy. As I said, right now Cwebb has us as fourth on a very long list of teams that will vie for his talents. I think his friendship with Sprewell is stronger than anticipated (at least stronger than media attention is giving it lately). I think the fact that Steve and Mobes are here is a factor, although Dub playing for an accomplished coach like Rudy in this very "alive" Houston (multi-cultural)market is probably a larger factor, as Roxtia attempted to point out. All in all though, New York, Miami, Orlando, even LA(yeah there is some talk about Jackson's Lakers making a bid) could also (arguably) fit these criteria in whole or in part. Going to be a good summer! (I just hope we get to unload Walt and Cato real early.) ------------------
You could be right, Pop---er, Oeilpere. The Knicks will need to offer up something of interest, though, to get C-Webb; they never dangle Houston, and I don't think he'll appreciate being kept around just to be shipped off to Sacramento. He likes the East. Actually, he likes NY. So the trade would involve Camby (6 mil?) Othella (2.5/3 mil?) and crap. I could see that. NY would have cap problems from now until forever, but it could be done. A 3-way deal would be difficult, as the cap-space teams (Detroit, Houston) also want the guy, and Chicago and Clips haven't a chance. Your phrasing was nice and delicate. I was just pointing out what kept Derek Harper from reporting to Utah; what brought Shandon from a contender to Houston. You can take the man out of the big city but you can't necessarily take the big city out of the man. ------------------
again, with much respect...i disagree. what do we have to offer etc??? uh,...Rudy T vs. Rick Adelmann...two, a team with a history of championships vs a team without one...three, we may be a young team, but we still had Hakeem and Bulllard to instill the championship pride into these youngsters. even Barkley was a nusansance to Steve's cell phone for his rookie season. who on Sacramento has that to offer their young nucleous? again, oeipere, much respect...i always read your post with much interst and excitement. but this is the first i would have to disagree. i do think we have something to offer, but agree with you that it may very well be a long shot. i believe we are in CWebb's top three with New York being his personal pick, but i don't see it being Sacramento's pick for window shopping for replacements. i see Orlando and Houston as tied for accomodating CWebb and Sacramento. just my opinion, 4play ------------------ cynthia don't go!!! i miss you already
