[LA Times] Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says

max, that book is awesome. i got to see rob bell up in michigan last year and he did not fail to disappoint.

i have to say though, a couple months ago, a guest pastor at my parents' church (non-denominational evangelical) spent an entire sermon railing against bell, don miller, brian mclaren and all the emerging church leaders. he spent the entire time explaining how "christianity is going down a dangerous, dangerous path" where people were being taught that doubt, tolerance, and progressivism were "acceptable." obviously it was highly troubling to me, because those guys (and the emerging movement) are people i respect more than anyone. it has led me to believe that they (and people like you) are in the minority. i can't prove this, of course, but i think there's a reason people on here consider you to be *different* than a typical religious person. there is no doubt in my mind that you (and many other christians) are highly intelligent, intellectually curious people. i just don't see a whole lot of them in the mainstream, or in my day-to-day life. that's all.

 

Good luck waiting on empirical proof to a metaphysical question.

 

See above.

 

Mainline Protestant denominations (Methodist/Presbyterian/Episcopalian, etc) are labelled as far too liberal by the types of churches you're talking about too...but there are tons more mainline Protestants than those in the "fundamentalist" churches you've been exposed to. You're hearing the LOUDEST voices in the room, I think. But that doesn't mean they're the most. It's because being loud and telling everyone else how wrong they are is pretty much all I see those churches doing at this point.

Yeah, that guest pastor would hate what I think. I hate that they've hijacked the word, "evangelical." But anyways....I get labelled with that "emerging" label too...not much for labels, frankly.

 

Ah, I can tell you have never loved a woman. You can touch her, but can you touch your love? If you have love, you can feel it in a number of ways and you know it's absolutely real. But is it tangible? Faith is much the same.

 

Actually, I'm engaged so you're wrong. I'm not going to bother responding to your metaphysical mumbo jumbo, either, because as I said: I don't argue this crap.

 

And the christian assumptions of original sin, salvation in Christ, and eternal damnation for those who don't believe...? What are your assumptions for why someone does not believe Max?

Is it really convenient and easy to stand up to your family and say I choose not to believe as you do?

Is it really dismissive and disrespectful to investigate the history and meaning of something as important as the religion you were raised in?

Is there really fault in wondering why others have not taken the time to think and wonder and research and then ask some questions?

Is it really fair to say that someone who doubts is taking the convenient way out, when any questions are met not with debate and interest, but dogma and creed?

I'm never offended when you say that I have not done enough research Max, and correct/inform me in turn. That only means that I have more to think about.

 

Congratulations on being engaged!

I'm not arguing with you. I'm only trying to help you understand that some things you know are true aren't necessarily provable ... nothing more.

 

Nope. For the 2008 Presidential Campaign, Murdoch contributed the max to McCain and nothing for Obama.

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Rupert_Murdoch.php

He tried to make nice with Obama when it was clear Obama would win, but that was a business decision to try and get access to the new administration for Fox.

 

Faith makes you spend part of your Saturday cleaning bathrooms?

 

Love is a feeling and I'm well aware how I feel. That is tangible as far as I am concerned because my fiancé is tangible as well.

Some people love God in the same way. That's fine. I don't because I can't see him and I can't talk to him like I can my fiancé. I can have faith in her because she's obviously real; God is not so obviously real to me.

 

So thumbs, Rupert Murdoch is your answer to the owner of an unbiased and fact-based news source? And the evidence for that is the not-a-fact that Mr. Murdoch contributed to the Obama campaign. Okay. We really live on completely different planets, but I do sincerely wish you well.

 

No, I was showing you that ownership and news orientation don't necessarily march in lockstep.

 

i could go through these one by one...but this isn't what i was saying, at all. if we were in deposition, i'd say: "objection: nonresponsive." and then you'd say, "umm..you never asked me a question. i'm not the one being deposed...why the hell am i here? what time is it? does anybody really know what time it is?"

i never said any of these things...at all. i said only that's it's a bit offensive when i'm told the only reason i could have arrived at my position is because i didn't think about it as hard as someone else. i know people from all different faith backgrounds who are super smart...and this discounts those people by just assuming, "faith = stupidity/sheep/uninformed, etc"

and in one of my posts (maybe 2) in this thread i very specifically lamented when assumptions are made about atheists by religious folx as well.


EDIT: for the sake of convenience, here's what I said:


that's because the assessment is loaded with the assumption that you, as a person of faith, have never taken the time to research it..or study other religion...or stop to think about any of it. because your'e just a sheep. "if you'd have stopped for even a second to think of it, you'd know how wrong you are."

on the other hand...the assumption is that atheists or agnostics are evil...or they're just trying to be contrarian...or whatever else.

because it's much easier to make assumptions about other people than it is to bother to stop and ask...or take the time to listen. to try to understand someone. we can all group each other up in different groups that way and point fingers at people behind those other imaginary lines...blaming and ridiculing along the way. it's much more comfortable, because now we have this new group we fit into which is mostly about how we're not behind the other side's imaginary lines.

i don't find any of that to be very inspiring.

...and the beat goes on.

 

Have you ever seen a bear **** in the woods?

Just sayin'...

 

On the Nature channel, sure.

 

Have you ever seen Jesus **** in the woods?

Just sayin'...

 

i laughed :grin:

 

I've seen Jesús **** in the woods.

srs.