[LA Times] Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says

that's because the assessment is loaded with the assumption that you, as a person of faith, have never taken the time to research it..or study other religion...or stop to think about any of it. because your'e just a sheep. "if you'd have stopped for even a second to think of it, you'd know how wrong you are."

on the other hand...the assumption is that atheists or agnostics are evil...or they're just trying to be contrarian...or whatever else.

because it's much easier to make assumptions about other people than it is to bother to stop and ask...or take the time to listen. to try to understand someone. we can all group each other up in different groups that way and point fingers at people behind those other imaginary lines...blaming and ridiculing along the way. it's much more comfortable, because now we have this new group we fit into which is mostly about how we're not behind the other side's imaginary lines.

i don't find any of that to be very inspiring.

...and the beat goes on.

 

i guess i can only speak from my own experience.

i apologize for being flippant, i'm not looking to be rude or disrespectful.

 

I respect your views but you have seemed easily insulted and touchy with regards to this kind of thing lately. It's his opinion and one that I share. It's how I've gotten to where I am with regards to my agnostic beliefs and how I think quite a few people get to where they just don't believe anymore. That's not meant to be insulting to you but some people's life experience.

MadMax, I'm sorry you find my lack of faith disturbing.

 

i'm great with you believing what you believe and sharing it here. that's awesome. no problem with that.

i'm not as great with the casting of assumptions about other people because they might believe something else. particularly when it's candy coated in, "well, that's just because you haven't done the research."

If I were to cast the discussion that way in the other direction...suggesting you're agnostic just because you haven't read enough books or because you're just being a sheep...I'd expect you to be offended for the heaping helping of assumption served.

 

Probably because it's owned by rightwing douche king Sam Zell?

In the future, do some research before committing fat finger to keyboard for standard tangent brah.

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. I disagreed with Space Ghost. I did not attack his lack of belief -- belief or non-belief is a right reserved for each of us. If someone asks me what I believe, I have no reservations about sharing. However, I do not try to change others unless they demonstrate a desire to be changed.

 

Well that's not surprising. If they know why they're not religious they would know more about religion, than say the average Catholic. Muslims probably know a lot about their religion, but I feel like many Christians just go through the motions. I can't lie, I am one of them.

 

Of course, was this ever really in doubt?



DD

 

yeah, you're misunderstanding me...my bad. i wasn't suggesting you were attacking him at all.

 

I could care less who owns a newspaper. I care only about a newspaper's accuracy and lack of agenda. A medium can have any opinion they want on its "editorial" page but not on its news pages.

 

You think so? Show me proof of God. Show me that he loves me. Show me that he's all powerful, all loving and all knowing. I need proof before I believe. The Bible is just a book of fairy tales written by man. My life has been hell. Other Christians continue to abuse me. I pray all the time, but nothing changes. I don't think He listens to me. Im really doubting He exists sometimes.

These are very common responses I hear from teetering Christians, agnostics and atheists. They all have one common theme; They need proof. You, nor I or anyone else can prove the existence of God. Going on a hunt for PROOF will always end in failure.

I don't study the Bible or religion for proof. I study it for a better understanding of God. As I study more and more, even when I venture outside of Christianity, my faith becomes stronger. My faith is not rooted to the past works of men 2000-4000 years ago, but to what I feel God wants me to be now.

The reality is that a large amount of Christians faith is rooted to what they were raised to believe in Sunday School. They are taught a handful of scriptures to fit their doctrine. Its amazing what little many Christians know about their belief. This isn't a blanket summary of all Christians, just like many like to assume most christians are hypocrites and bible beaters.

 

I doubt, too. Hell, the Bible is filled with doubters...many of whom are revered as "heroes." I can't show you proof....or, better said, what I would show you, you could discount as something else. I don't try to prove up God that way. Not interested in that at all. I don't see Jesus doing any of that.

But that's not the point of what I was posting at all. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing....with people having different perspectives and sharing them. "here's what i believe...here's what i don't believe...here's my story." awesome!! That's good stuff. I care about that stuff.

I have a problem with the assumptions made for other people as to WHY they believe or don't believe something...particularly when that assumption is wrapped in, "well you must not be thinking about this as hard as I am." or "you must have not read these books by this guy who says what you believe is crap." The assumptions are faulty because they're not true...and because they're too convenient and easy..and too dismissive and disrespectful of people.

 

(1) You can't really pretend the owner or ownership group is irrelevant to a newspaper's final presentation and business model... and ultimately its "agenda." That would be ridiculous even two years after the invention of the printing press. Nevermind 2010.

(2) Please give us a news source that you believe to be "accurate" and lacking "an agenda."

(3) Can you site any real lack of accuracy in the LA Times?

(4) WTF is wrong with me for even trying this?

 

That's a generalization that I disagree with. A lot of atheists have tried to understand a number of different religions and come to the conclusion that they don't agree with any of them.

 

I think you have greatly misunderstood me. Its Proof vs. Faith, not educated vs. uneducated. You can be a sheep or a educated person and fall on either side. After reading the Case for Christ, it greatly strengthen my faith in God, but it casted much doubt on organized religion/doctrine. How many Christians truly know how the Bible was compiled? Researching and education can greatly strengthen a persons belief, but if you're chasing the wrong trail, it can do the opposite.

 

well that's a good thing, in my view.

another book you might like if you haven't read it: "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. First book I ever read in my life where I thought, "holy crap..he stole my book! that's the book i would write!"

at the end of the day, though...faith is faith. it's not to be proved up. this is the false notion that we go round and round with here and elsewhere. it's faith..not science. and it's frustrating when people on both sides of the discussion try to make one live by the constructs of the other.

 

Faith is not a choice for me. I can't believe in something without seeing it and knowing it's absolutely real. It's just not a system I can trust. People who would ask me to believe in something they cannot show is also not a system I can trust, especially if they ask for money to help doing so. Personally, I find religion illogical and damaging to society as a whole; there are some benefits (finding strength during hard times, etc.) but there are more harms (extremist actions) which greatly outweigh any benefit religion may have for some.

That's my personal opinion.

However, I realize it's my personal opinion and it isn't shared by many, many, MANY religious people. That's fine. I'm not going to pass judgment on them because they believe differently. Who am I to do so? It's not something I really choose to argue either because, like abortion, no one's changing their mind in that argument so it's pointless.

The criticism and judgment certainly swings both ways; some atheists think religious people are kinda stupid for believing in God and some religious people think atheists are all going to hell. Whatever. I think they're both stupid for being so damned angry about it.

 

It's strange that we live in a world (this part of it anyway) where believing in something for which there is no credible, empirical evidence will actually earn you respect with most people. On the contrary, I find it hard to take anyone seriously as soon as they go into "religious mode". They might as well be arguing that Santa Clause is real.

 

I'll meet you at the bike racks after school so we can settle this once and for all Old Testament style, you heathen.

 

Bikes are stupid. Cars are better. Wanna fight about it?