Windhorst & Lowe Spoiler BW: Some rumblings in Vegas that Kyrie was unhappy about something. Basically what happened then is some Cavs players found agent, then the agents & a miracle it was kept quiet for 2 weeks. Indication the Cavs also weren't aggressive in trade talks. BW: I'll remember the 2015 Finals, Kyrie in the wake of it, him talking about how he went in & is a believer of Mamba mentality. Just not caring, being vicious, attacking your opponent blocking out the noise & everything like that. I remember thinking when he was talking about that, you know, Mamba mentality may not be the #2 to LeBron for your career. On the back burner of my mind, I wonder if Mamba mentality will want Kyrie away from LeBron. During the Conference Finals & Finals, he went on the record about the balance you have to have in wanting to showcase all your skills vs playing alongside a great player like LeBron. It was something along the lines of, "I would rather be on a great team like I am now vs. up at 3am shooting baskets wondering the direction of my team." When he said that, he also said I recognize how important this era is. When he started saying that, I thought "Oh, he's come to grips with this will be part of his career & he'll put his Mamba mentality on the back burner & wait until later." LeBron I think gave an interview to Dave McMenamin where he talked about he & Kyrie discussed there will be a torch passing where Kyrie will take over as LeBron ages. That they've talked about this & this won't be an issue like I thought this was. I'm not cherry-picking quotes from 2014. I'm pulling something from 5 weeks ago. That's a long winded way of saying that I'm not shocked he wanted out but was surprised at the timing. ZL: First reaction was they won't trade him. You're under contract, really good, entering your prime, we won't trade you. Then the weekend happened. You spend the weekend communicating. It feels like, maybe it's the rawness of it although it's 17 days old for the Cavs, it feels not salvageable to me. It feels like they're in a place of this is happening, we'll get a good deal & it's happening. I saw you went on SC & said you think it's gonna happen. Is this just not salvageable? BW: Anything is possible. It's an option but I also think this request has done damage between LeBron & Kyrie. LeBron put out another passive aggressive social media post where he expressed his feelings. ZL: I didn't watch that. BW: LeBron has no plausible deniability. There's 3 parties here. It's possible. One thing that will get interesting is this: Kyrie has given the Cavs some lift. He has 2 years left on his deal. Remember what happened with Paul George at the deadline when the Pacers first thought about trading him. His agent went around & told teams if you want to trade for him, go ahead but if not in Indiana, he'll probably sign with the Lakers, which killed the market for him. Kyrie has 2 years left. Will there be a chill in the market because Kyrie says I only plan on signing with one of these 4 teams when I'm a free agent so don't trade for me if you want me for longer than 2 years. Is that something that could happen? In that case, the market gets chilled & increases the chances the Cavs maybe hold on. I think it's most likely to happen that some team takes the risk & ...fans will look at how does Kyrie fit with this two-guard, how does he fit on this team. Kyrie is a much bigger star than Jimmy Butler & I would argue Paul George. His shoes are immensely popular. He's immensely popular with kids. I believe he's filming as a character in the Uncle Drew movie. If you trade for him, it's a big boost to your franchise. That business aspect of Kyrie is huge. That increases his value to say a team like Phoenix who may be looking for more excitement & sell tickets. ZL: I was gonna say Denver. He is a superstar. I guarantee you that comes up. Never say never but the vibe is that this is gonna happen. I don't know what the market will be. If it cools off, I think they'll try & salvage it. If 2 years scares people off for trading for stars, you're not going to see these trades. BW: Kyrie is 25. His contract is below market. He's gonna move product for you in every sense of the word & energize your fan base. He's an incredibly valuable player in a postseason setting. In analyzing the trades the Cavs can make, you presented one today - the Bucks deal - there are trades that make the Cavs better equipped to deal with the Warriors but I don't know if you're replacing a guy as valuable in a postseason setting. He's had some enormous playoff games the last few years. ZL: There aren't but 3-4 guys in the NBA who can do what he did in game 4 against Boston. That's it. You can criticize his defense, his effort, his ability to make others better but there are maybe 3 guys who can do what he did to Boston. ... BW: Guy they would love to get their hands on in a Kyrie trade would be Andrew Wiggins. ... Other team that could make a deal for him is the Phoenix Suns. BW: Around the draft & in Paul George talks, Cavs were not willing to make Irving available for Paul George. ZL: Pacers offered George for Irving. BW: The way the Cavs look at Kyrie is he's a young all-star under contract, therefore the most valuable trade chip you have. The way other teams may look at it as a 2-year rental player. Why they'd have that belief is to fight over value. Just like you fight over a [used] car. There can be a disagreement about his value. Same thing about Paul George. When the Pacers looked at trading George to Cleveland, they don't look at it as a 1-year rental. They think good chance he re-signs. When they negotiate with Cleveland, they look at sending George to Cleveland is worth more than what was offered to them. They look at it as he'll be there for a long time so send us Irving. Cavs say we're renting for a year, no Irving. That's where we have a disconnect & why it's difficult to negotiate these trades. That reality being understood, one wonders had Kyrie made his request known a month earlier, could that trade have happened? What Kyrie's side is putting forth is no one...we would have expressed our displeasure but no one would meet with us. No exit meetings, Griffin was out the door... so lost to history is what would have happened if everyone was transparent a month ago & if Griffin wasn't let go. Would he have been able to go to Kyrie like he has in the past & smooth it over? Just wait a year & in a year if LeBron walks & you want to be traded, we'll trade you, if LeBron walks & you have certain demands about how we'll play, we'll do that. Maybe Griffin can smooth it over. We'll never know. BW: Cavs & Nuggets believed they had an agreement with the Pacers to do a George-Love deal. Pacers don't believe they ever had an agreement, tentative or otherwise. Doesn't matter, trade didn't happen. Cavs are now suffering for lack of stability in the front office. One thing Kyrie has made clear in talks with the Cavs & look at his requested teams - San Antonio & Miami - he wants a franchise that is more stable going forward. And I guess he feels stability in Minnesota with Thibs. ZL: Griff question is interesting. If he's still there, do they know with more certainty? Can he smooth it over? We'll never know. BW: Cavs were damaged by the way their front office situation played out. ZL: Seems unthinkable to people that Kyrie would not want to play with LeBron & make the Finals every year. Now seems to be more concern about who's winning the PR battle vs. what's happening to the Cavs franchise. Stephen A. said Kyrie thinks LeBron leaked it. The basketball team is being forgotten. There's a team, there's human beings, they've gotten far. Are you surprised...Kyrie will get killed. Is that fair?
Spoiler ZL: Seems unthinkable to people that Kyrie would not want to play with LeBron & make the Finals every year. Now seems to be more concern about who's winning the PR battle vs. what's happening to the Cavs franchise. Stephen A. said Kyrie thinks LeBron leaked it. The basketball team is being forgotten. There's a team, there's human beings, they've gotten far. Are you surprised...Kyrie will get killed. Is that fair? BW: As a reporter and as you are too, I'll never reveal my sources. What's most important is the story is accurate. Kyrie requesting the trade is accurate. What Stephen A. said, a story of this magnitude, you need 3-4-5 sources, something this big. This wasn't a 1-sourced story. A story of this magnitude, you have to go to everyone for comment before you publish. We had a quote from Kyrie's agent in the 3rd or 4th paragraph. It was a non-denial but the concept of a leak is irrelevant. It's true, you asked for a trade. I don't think Kyrie's side is happy it became public because it puts him in a bad light. If Kyrie all the sudden out of the clear blue sky...I sorta compare it to James Harden. There was some rumblings but all the sudden he was traded. If he was traded out of the clear blue sky, ...it wasn't like that wasn't going to get public. I don't understand why...Kyrie has every right to want to leave. Everyone who is a #2 in any job, if you're #2, you want to be #1. ZL: Cleveland fans might say he signed a contract to be here & has 2 years left. I'm playing devil's advocate. I can see fans saying he signed here & now will force our hand? I can see there being frustration. BW: For sure. When you do that, you'll know you'll get some dirt on your hands. Kevin Love had to get messy. Carmelo had to get messy. Ideally, you do it the way Chris Paul did it, in 5 seconds but he was a free agent to be. Kyrie wanted like Harden, where they couldn't come to an understanding & was traded the next day. But if you're going to force your way out, you're going to get some blood on your hands. Regardless of how it became public, you'd be naive to think you'd make it out of this without a hit to your reputation. Many people have overcome those hits. He's put himself in a difficult situation. What he can call success narrows. Let's say he got traded to Denver. The Nuggets reaching the playoffs would be an accomplishment for them. If he led them with Jokic, it'd be a good thing but Jokic-Irving is not a championship team. If you're 7th seed for 2-3 years in a row & fighting for all-star positions out West, that's a situation he'll have to deal with, especially if LeBron is going to Finals on the other side. ZL: It's fascinating to think how he'd do as a #1. Easy to beat him up & say he's not ready. If you put him into Westbrook's situation last year where it's all about him or even Harden's situation, he'd do well & team is okay. But okay is about all there is. He's awful defensively. He's alright when he tries. His passing is fascinating. I think he has the ability to be a very good passer but it's not something...anyone who draws 2-3 defenders can be a good passer. He's never struck me as a guy playing with the timing & creativity of James Harden. People who know him though say that's in his game but not the way he wants to play. ... But players change. He's 25 & still young. If you put him in a different system with different talent & big men who can pass, where the ball is moving, he might become a different player. I think it'd be fascinating to see him try & do think his game could evolve & becomes a better all around player. If he thinks he can go out & shoot 26 times, I do think he is in for a rude awakening. BW: He was frustrated at times about what happened on the court. He led the Cavs in shots this year. It's also about organizational...when he says SA & Miami, he's making an organizational comment. Dan Gilbert does not value stability in the front office & certainly doesn't value chain of command at times. SA & Miami is as much about organizational stability as it is about sharing the light with LeBron. ZL: When Kyrie gets back, can they get him & LeBron in a room to figure it out? I don't think he needs to apologize. Can they get in a room? It is salvageable depending on what is said in there. I don't think LeBron will hold grudges forever & ever. That's the step that has to happen. BW: Can Pop & RC get him in a room? Could Spoelstra & Riley get him in a room? Who's to get him in the room in Cleveland? ZL: Why do they need someone to tell them to get in a room? Why not just have it happen? BW: Kyrie is making his point clear that he doesn't want to be in the room with LeBron anymore. ZL: LeBron is unhappy right? BW: LeBron didn't find out on Friday. He was not blindsided on Friday. He was when he found out. From what I understand, he has moved on & his sentiment is Dan, put the best team around me you can. I will report to training camp in September & will attempt to lead the team around me to a championship. If Kyrie isn't on the team, so be it. That's where he's at now, as described to me. Where he was at it when it happened was surprised, taken aback, blindsided, disappointed, I was even told extremely disappointed, I used devastated on SC. He was extremely upset. Now he's come to terms with it. Could he get past it? He can get past anything. He came back to Dan Gilbert. Right now, the ground is not fertile for that situation. ZL: They have to make it fertile. BW: If you were advising the Cavs, sounds like you'd say don't trade him. ZL: I'm not there. The vibe I'm getting is they're ready to do it. They're proceeding as if they're gonna trade him. You have to explore the market. Once you open that up, everyone is mentally prepared for it & maybe eager in Kyrie's case. It's a lot of drama but this is a great basketball team. It's not like the Cavs are chopped liver. You'd think there would be some internal motivation to figure it out. If it's LeBron last year, let's go in & try to win & be together. If he leaves, he leaves. Kyrie, you're still here, Kevin is still here, we can still make it work down the line. Always so much damn drama with them. BW: If you could sit Kyrie & LeBron down, you'd say of course you're upset but that's what we do on this team. We have drama. We fire our coach during the middle of the season, we have sub-tweeting, we have players screaming at each other on the bench, we go under .500 & play like crap for a month & half leading into the playoffs. Of course we have drama! This is when we're at our best, when you're at each other's throats! Come on back, this is what we do! That's one way to go about it. That's kinda the way David Griffin used to go about it. When they were down 3-1, he was like of course we're down 3-1. It's our destiny to make it as hard as possible on each other, that's what we do. That would be a way I could say this is just another chapter in the novel. ... About Phoenix, they can make an offer to get Irving in my mind. Everyone is throwing Bledsoe in there. Solid player but 3 knee surgeries. He can't be the center piece. Would the Suns make Josh Jackson available? That to me is whether the Suns can do a deal. ... If you could get Bledsoe, Jackson(if LeBron walks), that's the type of trade they're looking for. ZL: They want a young stud player. Same with Denver. They could make a competitive offer with Harris & Murray in it. I'd assume they don't want to part with both. BW: You just invested in Millsap. You might as well back it up with Kyrie Irving. ZL: Team that is a mystery is Utah. Able to dig in on that at all? BW: Before they made the Rubio deal, if Kyrie wants a stable organization with strong head coach, ...I'm ignoring New York. That's home for him. I'm looking at the other teams: Minnesota, San Antonio, Miami - strong coach, stable organization. Utah is a stable organization with strong coach. ZL: Hard to find a good deal that makes sense for Cleveland. BW: Cavs have had all kinds of talks with the Jazz over Melo deals, Kevin Love deals, ...they've been talking with the Jazz on & off for months. ZL: So Jazz are the 3rd team in these deals? BW: I want to be careful with what I say here because I'll say it & it'll be on a blog. I've heard deals where they were the 3rd team. It was easier when Boris Diaw was there with a beautiful contract to use in a trade. Had the Cavs moved Love, they would have had interest in acquring Favors as part of a trade. ZL: Liked how you said blog. BW: My only thing is they take a 48 minute conversation, pull out one sentence & call it a report. If I could report it, it would be as a headline on ESPN.com. ZL: End game here? Still predicting he gets traded? Urgent? Before training camp? Into the season? BW: My read is the Cavs will not create an artificial timeline. The only deadline is February 8, the trade deadline. The stance they'll take it they'll try to accommodate his request but non-committal on whether it'll happen at all. The interesting thing will be is will there be a Melo trade in this situation or another event in the NBA that allows for a change in circumstance. Will there be a player who comes up with an unexpected surgery, a player who gets a buyout...things are always changing in the NBA. If you don't like your situation, you can just wait. Think if the Pacers just waited. They had their reason of why they made it then but what if they waited, they might have waited their way right into Kyrie Irving. Cavs don't need to be in a rush. This lasted 2 weeks before anyone found out. Doesn't look like they're in a rush.
As big and strong as he is/looks, LeBron doesn't intimidate anyone. He's probably never been in a fight since elementary school.
Maybe true but he would beat the crap out of Kyrie if it came to it. I doubt Kyrie has had many scraps in his life either.
LeBron's people want to leak how "mad" and "tough" LeBron is so that he can save face with the people in Cleveland. I agree that Kyrie probably haven't been in enough fights in his life but for reports "leaking" saying LeBron would beat that ass, small Kyrie Irving ass? Lol okay Bron Bron you couldn't even handle Delonte West.
Makes me wonder if lebron is trying to make the cav's stock plummet so he can afford to buy the franchise.
Cavs are in win now mode with Lebron James why would they want salary relief or low draft picks? They don't even want to trade Irving straight up for Melo u think they will take low picks from Rox/Knicks and expiring and lose Love or Irving? The Rox don't even have their own pick next year because they traded that to the Clips! Why don't u look at it from Cavs perspective first? Why would they be dumb enough to get rid one of their stars to help Melo go to Houston? Lmao
who said the picks were coming from the Knicks or Rockets.......you're being narrow minded about it. Lots of teams could be in the deal. there are plenty of ways to do trades. The Cavs will still be in Championship contention without Kyrie and still favourites in the East. Just quietly, expiring contracts are what tax paying teams are willing to take on, so the luxury tax number gets brought down. Cavs owner is probably looking at reducing the tax he has to pay. The tax is going to be far bigger at this stage
I hate Lebron This dude does nothing but call out his organization and teammates through the media and social media but gets super butt hurt when it becomes public Kyrie doesn't want to play with him
It'll be a long time before he's a joke on the court. Off the court, maybe, but he's the best player in the league since Hakeem.
Where did I imply his play is a joke? Isn't it obvious it's about his character...still for a guy who is supposed to be a GOAT, he sure needs a lot to go right to win. Often he plays passive, blames team mates, he even gets to make his own team and had to team up twice with 2 All-Stars to win. He will never be on the level of Kareem, Bird, MJ, Duncan, Kobe and Hakeem and possibly other legend like Russell and Wilt in my opinion.
Kareem: Never won one without help. Think Big O and Magic. Bird: Teams were loaded with talent. McHale came off the bench for god's sake. MJ: He retired in 1993 and his team went to 7 games with the eventual Eastern Conference Champs. That says a lot about both MJ and his teams. Duncan: David Robinson, Ginobli, Tony Parker, Kawhi Leonard.. dude never did anything alone thanks to their drafting crew. Kobe: Shaq, then no Shaq and his teams sucked until they got Gasol and Bynum. Russell: I think he played alongside 4 hall of famers. Wilt: His chip in 1967 stands out as one of the few times a badass nba legend won with very little help. However, Hal Greer was a 20 and 10 guy so.. Hakeem: Did it with little help in 1994. Dirk: Same when Mavs won theirs. The NBA is chock full of stories of great players teaming up to win a ring. Needing help doesn't take away from greatness. Hakeem didn't do it alone, neither did Dirk. That's why people still talk about Horry and Cassell and Kenny Smith and Max til this day. Dream had the right guys around him, LeBron needs the right guys around him as well. Nothing wrong with that. It's a team sport. In conclusion, LeBron is a living legend. Kyrie has every right to want to be the man, but one day he'll look back and be happy about playing with a legend. However, no one EVER touched the greatness of Hakeem in 1994. Dude played with guys who the next leading scorer on his team averaged 13 in the Finals. No one has ever had that little help and won. Hakeem is the greatest basketball player to ever live. LeBron is pretty good too. Just not on Hakeem level. Dude took the Cavs to the finals when the next closest player scored 12 ppg. That's a performance worth noting. Only a true legend could pull something like that off. Difference with Hakeem is he would have carried those Cavs to the promised land.
