part of the story is eli's collaspe, part of it is pacman's play, and part of it is vince's comeback. no one argues that vince has some magical power, but read the comments after the game from his teamate. he inspires them, no matter how you want to judge that, those comments come from them. I'm not making that up. his teamates lobbied for him to start. I'm not really knocking carr because I don't think carr needs that intangible to be successful. I still think carr can be successful, but I just know he will never be special, and vince has the talent to be special.
Actually most games he has achieved it. And if he isn't able to achieve more than that, I would be in favor of jettisoning him as well, but not prematurely
its not about carrying the team, its about not throwing the ball over andre johnson's head on third and two. its about not turning the ball over so much you get benched, when the other qb on the other team is the player a lot of fans want to see in your spot. we don't need carr to carry the team, just make plays when your team needs them.
again...i'm not suggesting that david carr lost the buffalo and/or giants game. i'm suggesting that he doesn't WIN games. i know that in your mind the players around him have conspired to ruin him...and that no other QB in the league faces challenges. but in my mind, when you're paying the kind of money you are to david...and you're passing up opportunities to improve the position....you should probably expect a little more than, "well, he didn't lose the game for us." thank god we extended him. i look forward to 4 more years of terrific game management.
absolutely; it's also about the coach not calling a pass play on third and two... you're not getting off this time. please provide one post in which i have applied, hinted or even remotely approached a suggestion that players are conspiring to ruin david carr or that he's the only QB in the league to face challenges. go ahead... ONE post, max. because all you're doing is belittling my point of view and that's disingenuous. it's one thing to jaw back and forth, but myself and others have gone out of our way to clearly frame our point of view, re: carr, and none of us think, and have asked you and others repeatedly to grasp this, that david carr is above reproach. there are no absolutes, MM. who's to say young wouldn't have the same experience this year carr's had? again, i've posted what i thought were eye-popping numbers and they are, of course, ignored so people can take another shot at david carr and/or those patient enough to want to see this thing play out to its rightful end. 12 turnovers; 321 rushing yards... when has carr had the fortune of playing with teammates who contributed such a bounty? a texan RB has generated 143 or more rushing yards exactly twice in carr's 5+ years here; it's happened twice in vince young's first 4 starts. that means nothing...?
I agree. I for one think QB is one of the less obvious/easy improvements the Texans need to make. If Carr can't perform with a running game behind him and a defense that doesn't put the burden on winning the game always on the offense then I'd spend more energy on trying to improve QB play. Maybe not denigrating, but nor do you give him enough credit IMO. Arizona hasn't been much different over the season with ML over Warner, Tennesse has been much more effective with VY over Kerry Collins over the 11 games they have played. VY does make their offense more difficult to defend, and it is impressive given he is a baby both as an NFL passer as well as playing in a pro style system. Does not take away the job of Fisher and staff and the running game from also being key factors for their better play, but the latter were there when the Collins-lead team looked to be the worst in the league. Maybe you have said something to the effect of, "yeah that VY looks to have about as much upside as any player from the last draft or two", but I have not heard that from you, and I think it is pretty clear to be true. (One could thrown in Merriman, Ware, maybe Alex Smith or Leinart or Williams or Colston too--personally I'd take VY 1st of this crowd, but either way VY very much has the apparence of a top end/sky is the limit young player from the last couple of drafts.)
well, collins is a terrible QB; a lot of QBs would represent a significant upgrade over him. however, henry only played in 2 of the team's first 4 games, totaling 82 yards. oh, is that what i should have said....? yeah, well, i don't really think that highly of vince young. sorry. i think he has the potential to be an effective QB in the nfl and i think he's in an ideal situation with fisher in tennessee, but that's about as far as i'll go, which is by no means a put down. i've always compared him (favorably) to randall cunningham, who could be lights-out great, but was more often hurt and never able to live up to his potential on a consistent basis. but you know what? you could do a lot worse than randall cunningham; he was a very good QB for many, many years. doing what makes vince vince is tough on a weekly basis in the nfl.
So were you just as patient with Gaffney or any other high pick thats been cut loose? if not, why not?
At the beginning of the season I was right there with you bubba. But watching Carr shrink away from the challenge began to bother me. Listening to his standard excuses every Monday only made matters worse. I am conflicted on this guy. My head is in tune with what you have been saying all along but my gut is starting to tell me that it's time to move on. I suppose that with the team around him in such desperate need of repair, I'm looking at intangibles from him and I'm just not seeing the things that I need to see from David to convince me that he is the right guy for the job. What's most distressing is that I'm seeing this from a rookie QB playing for our competition. Finally, I believe that you understand my position. The Titans scare me greatly and I don't know how to handle it. It's going to be an ugly scene at Reliant because it will be packed with Titans fans. If the Texans come out and do yet another belly flop then look out below...
See, that's just disingenuous. What about the 3rd-and-6's that AJ has dropped this year? No mention of those? No, this is *not* AJ's fault. But, if you mention one, you've got to mention the other. It's not like Carr misthrows AJ twice as often as he drops it. In fact, I'd bet that they're close to even on that. Addionally, Carr does *not* have a history of turning the ball over, yet you (and others) point to the *one* game where that happened as supporting evidence for your case. How about taking 50 million sacks over the last four years and rarely fumbling? How about throwing far fewer INTs this year? You've left all that out of your argument here, and as such your argument (while your point may be otherwise defensible) is disingenuous.
You're being sarcastic, no? http://www.giants.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=5 Eli give-the-game-away Manning's coach...
Remember when Gilbride and Buddy Ryan got into that donnybrook? That was awesome, we need more of that.
he fumbles all the time. we're clearly not talking about the same David Carr. for his career, he's fumbled at about a 1 per game pace. he's one of the worst in the NFL at that, and Kubiak acknowledged that as something he's had to work with david on. http://blog.kir.com/archives/003566.asp Carr's defenders point to his salty NFL quarterback rating, which was 4th in the league going into last week's debacle against the Titans. However, the NFL's QB rating is about as misleading as batting average in baseball in terms of evaluating a player's true effectiveness. QB Score per play -- a far more accurate statistic for evaluating QB play developed by the folks over at the Wages of Wins blog -- reflects that Carr is nowhere near the top level of NFL QB's. When rushing, sacks, and fumbles are considered along with passing stats, then Carr was ranked only as the 19th best QB in the NFL going into the Titans game. Based on his disastrous game against the Titans last Sunday, Carr was ranked dead last in the NFL for the week in QB Score per play. Just to underscore the misleading nature of the NFL's QB rating, after Carr’s horrific Week Eight effort, he barely dropped in the NFL QB rating -- from 4th to 6th. In comparison, QB Score per play ranks him 23rd among NFL signal-callers, which appears to be much closer to where Texans head coach Gary Kubiak is rating Carr. I don't think that level of performance is what Bob McNair had in mind when he selected Carr as the Texans' first draft choice in 2002.
I guess it just comes down to this. Up until this year I was believing all these stats, excuses, reasons etc. But now, the only stat I care about is wins and losses.
12 forced turnovers in 4 games - that's a league-leading pace. in their other 7 games, they have 8 total. henry had 321 total rushing yards in two of the wins since vince became the starter - that's a 2,500-yard pace. he rushed for 178 and 143 yards in those games. in 4 years and 11 games, a texan back has eclipsed 143 yards rushing exactly twice. henry would be the second leading rusher on the texans right now with just those two games; a mere 94 yards away from lundy.
sorry...i misunderstood you...i thought you were talking about carr's numbers. in the giants game, henry was invisible. VY was the offense. it's his first season, ric. and he has only started 8 games.
