KT for Mihm?

If I'm wrong tell me so, but didn't Francis and Thomas come in the same year? I know after this year we will have exclusive rights to Francis so too with Thomas right? I don't have anything against Thomas, but I think he's in that Malik Rose-Gary Trent-Jason Caffey role. All three are good players, just not the solution to your answers long term. I don't think its another team in the league he could start for, but someone might give him a shot. Someone stated earlier about a 3 way that seem pretty fair with Randolph,Thomas and Mihm. Although I think Indy will try to get someone other than thomas or randolph, its interesting. No matter what happens, i don't think its highly likely it would put us in the playoffs this year. We would have to get healthy and do something we couldn't do last year and thats beat teams in the west. I think if we could get Mihm, play him with Griffin and whoever at the 3, along with Francis and Mobley, we could see if this team will be the one to carry us for the long haul.

As far as the Taylor thing, you can't count on someone after having the kind of injury he's had. With that being said, Penny and Kittles came back to contribute this year after people wrote them off, but also those two were better players to start with. If and when he comes back, i think and hope he will have to earn the position back and not have it handed to him especially if Griffin winds up averaging 14pts 9 rebs through the course of the season. Its kind of like wait and see with taylor., but for all the people thats counting on him next year, i don't think you can do it.

 

I don't know if the situation is as clear as you state DD, but you do bring up a good point about Mo and Eddie being acquired in consecutive years. As a matter of fact, with the way the college season and draft seem to be shaping up, the Rocks may be drafting another combo F (no top-flight Cs or SFs, PG and SG are set).

As for the trade proposal, I'd do that trade right now, nevermind the off-season.

 

You are off by a year.

Francis and KT are signed for 2002-2003. That is the 4th yr team options that we had to exercise by Oct 31st before their 3rd yr.

The summer leading in to the 2003-2004 season, Francis and KT are restricted free agents with full Larry Bird rights...that is, no team can pay them more than us, due to the difference in maximum raises for the home team.

DaDakota,

Yeah, it is a melodramatic word, because I think you are being melodramatic about KT leaving *next year*. How is KT going to get away? Look at the dates above.

KT cannot be traded for equal value, imo, because he will be underpaid next year. And can we please stop doing these 2 for 1 trades. I would not package KT with a 1st rounder and packaging him with Collier scores no extra points. Why does this bbs believe that 2 for 1s always increase our trades value in the minds of the other team? People do those 2 for 1s for the sole reason of doing trade matching because at least realGM forces that. The other team doesn't necessarily have room for the 2nd player. Collier adds nothing.

The reason we have to match another player contract to a KT trade to get equal value back is the whole reason why we won't trade him, imo. He is a rookie scale keeper. Most all those guys are underpaid come their 4th year. You don't trade them in their 4th year. Maybe you sign n trade them after their 4th year, but not during.

In fact, anyone want to name a rookie scale player who was trading in their team option year.

 

Ditto! Upgrade the 5 now. KT is the odd man out and sees the writing on the wall. Normally, he is oddly quiet...but, he spoke his mind last week and pretty much stated his intentions without going there.

Yao Ming would be the most optimal way to go for this team, but we would have to tank ala San Antonio to get him and I doubt Rudy and Les have that in them.

Vancouver is dangling Stromile Swift too and Vancouver wants a crafty veteran to give them some court leadership. Swift is averaging 13.5/7

here is my take:

KT for Mihm
Walt and Langhi for Stromile Swift or vice versa

end of season; Unload Cato somewhere..maybe Indiana for Croshere????

Next year rotation looks like this

C: Griffin/Mihm/Collier
PF: Taylor/Swift
F: Dunleavy/Tmo
G: Mobley/Torres
G: Francis/Norris

 

Restricted free agents must be signed for 2 yrs minimum.

regarding riding the pine a lot, I could only disagree by speculating. My point is that his value is greater than his salary this year and next. For that reason, you cannot trade him for his value except for the rare players being underpaid like him.

For this reason, he will have more trade value when he becomes a free agent, because then we can trade him to anyone with a middle class exception. Since he'll be a restricted free agent, we will have the power to deal, not the other way around. You say his value goes down with less stats. I say his value goes up with a greater market of teams to trade him too. KT cannot bring the same value in a 4th yr trade versus a restriction yr sign n trade. A marginal drop is stats due to PT will mean nothing, especially when the starter is a great as you say Griffin will be. If it did then Shandon's would have dropped last summer when Mobley made him move over.

I don't disagree with him being our best trade bait; I just say you are jumping the gun by 1.5 years. He is not great trade bait until we can pay him more. How many ~$1.9m matching contracts out there match Kenny in player value? How many trade exceptions are out there? Compare this to his free agent restriction year when we can trade him to any team!

 

Did you just wake up?

Hmm...perhaps Vancouver would trade Swift to San Diego for Walt Williams...or to New Orleans for Bryon Russell...hmmmmm....

 

I hardly call Mihm the prototypical center. Cleveland is moving him to PF. THAT is the thinking behind this trade-To Cleveland, KT is more valuable as a PF than Mihm is as a PF. To Houston, Mihm is more valuable as a C than KT is as a PF.

From the coach..

"Chris has really been growing. I tried to move him to power forward and then with the injury to Doleac had to put him back (at center)," Lucas said. "But I think he's going to be a power forward in our league. I've really tried to push Chris, because I think he has unlimited skills."

The only way to get equal value on a rookie scale contract, is for another rookie scale contract, which is what would be happening.

crispee-I can name a few: Matt Harpring, Roshown McLeod, Robert Traylor, Michael Doleac, Mike Bibby, Jason Williams, and Ricky Davis. Brian Skinner was traded TWICE going into his option year. Keon Clark was traded in that exact conditions KT is in right now-middle of his 3rd year, with the team option already extended.

Jumaine Jones was traded a year before, and Nazr Mohammed was traded, though his team declined the option.

The 2 for 1 point is good, though. Cleveland is at the 15 man limit-12 man roster, plus 3 injured.

montgo-Who said Swift would be traded? Swift is a major player, and Walt+Langhi wouldn't get you anywhere near him.

 

NIKE,

Mihm came in as a prototype center. How tall is he? Ilgauskas is allowing them to play him at PF, imo. Besides, you are saying we would definitely use him as a center. Many teams would, right.

And that seems to cover most of the trades you bring up...but

correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot trade KT for Mihm straight up. That's the whole point. KT is too low in the rookie scale to get matching value back.

Thanks for bringing up the other trades, so I didn't have to look. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Keon Clark was in a 3 for 3 trade, and Denver no longer has retained anyone in that trade; Willis is gone, and the other two are no longer in the league. My point was you cannot make a 1 for 1, besides would you really advocate trading Kenny for a 37 yr center. So, again, that is why you don't trade Keon Clark! You do not get fair value back, and 2 for 1s do not work the way realGM mavens likes to make it appear. Also, who really considers Bibby for Williams an even trade?

I'm not against this trade idea; I just think that adding Collier is a deal breaker, not a deal maker.

 

Since i haven't seen much of anything from Mihm i'm not really sure what he brings to the table. But if he can bring some interior defense, shot blocking, size, and some kinde of post game why not.

 

crispee-Probably most would use Mihm as a center. The knock on Mihm is that he's "soft", and that's why they use him at PF.

nba.com lists Mihm at 7'0'' , 265 lb.

The Collier point is a judgement call. He doesn't add value, but he is just a year removed from being the #15 pick overall, and isn't a contract ogre like Cato. Denver took on dead weight Alek Radojevic in the Keon Clark deal, and subsequently was able to trade him to Milwaukee in the Willis/Williams deal, who waived him. Radojevic makes a little over 1.5 mill. I think Collier is less of a dead weight piece than Radojevic. Cleveland has qualifying offers for 2 of its big men next year (Doleac/Skinner), and I'd think Collier could step right in for Doleac. Would a 2nd round pick be enough to cure Cleveland's qualms? A 1st?

For a gamble, one could expand the deal into Cato+Walt+KT for Mihm+Hill+Murray. Walt expires this year, while Skeletor will have one year left. Murray has 4 years left after this year, and similar for Cato.

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you package KT+the pick if it could land a stud, similar to last year's Skinner+#2 for Brand or #3+Wright+Knight for SAR?

 

This article may lend more insight into why Cleveland would do this deal. Currently, they are playing Jones at the 4 whose weakness is putting the ball on the floor.

KT's strength is his dribble drive penentration.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/plain...andard.xsl?/base/sports/10099700191407191.xml

 

Crispee, do you feel like KT will get 25 mpg even if MoT makes a full recovery and both he and Griffin start playing as well as many of us hope they will? It just seems hard to give all three guys close to 30mpg unless Griffin spends just about all his time at Center or KT sees serious minutes there too.

 

I would rather the Rockets trade KT and cap filler for Diop, and gamble on his huge upside. With Mihm playing well, maybe Cleveland would be more inclined to do this trade.

 

I agree with CP that I don't think the Cavs would trade Mihm for KT without additional value (versus cap filler). Call it the 7 foot bonus rule if you will (all other things being equal being near 7 foot carries trade value)

Another thing to think about however, I think KT would be more effective in the East versus the West and should be considered for the right player. Not that KT is ineffective for us, but his limitations are more apparent against the dominant 4's in the West. In fact except for Oneal, I think KT would come out OK against the other best EC PFs (SAR, Walker, Kenyon). In sum. he would be a quite respectable starting 4 in the East where it is more of a strech in the West.

 

I think the article BayRock linked supports your point, Scar. The way they're selling Jumaine Jones in that article, KT sounds like he could conceivably start at the 4 for them. But I don't know that Lucas would actually trade for KT. I think he, like us, is just struggling to find combinations that work. And I think it's interesting that everyone keeps insisting that Mihm is a 5. Lucas himself said he sees Mihm as a 4. We and many teams might play him at the 5, but that wouldn't make him a true center. But that's a silly point to quibble over.

 

We really can't get equal trade value for Thomas because he is playing pretty good, but we could use him as a throw in to get some one to take Cato's contract. A team may not want Cato other than him being a 7'0 stiff, but if Thomas was included they might be inclined to do it. At 28yoa, I would take Murray and Mihm for Cato and Thomas. That would give us a 3 man and 5 to go along with Griffin. Then Cleveland could move Jones back to his natural sf spot and Thomas at the 4. Since Z can only play about 25-28 min, then Cato could be the back up. I don't know how the salaries would work , but i'm pretty sure they're close.