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Kris Dunn vs. Jamal Murray

Discussion in '2020 NBA Draft' started by Clutch, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
    Staff Member

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    Both of these guys are intriguing.

    I really wanted Dunn last year and was disappointed when he pulled out of the Draft, but given that the Rockets' pick (from New Orleans) ended up sliding, no way they could have gotten him (he would have moved up in the Draft). He's very athletic, has great defensive potential and is a very slick playmaker.

    So far in the early season, his turnovers (a big problem) have been down. He still can't shoot from the outside (6-24 so far).

    [youtube]wpJy_HXTL2c[/youtube]

    [youtube]uyqHiHlo0ho[/youtube]

    Meanwhile, freshman Jamal Murray at Kentucky is pretty interesting as well.

    Not as athletic as Dunn, but he's smooth. He looks like a two that can play one -- very unselfish and can shoot the ball. From Canada, has really come on strong in the last year.

    [youtube]InmT9ZBqMg8[/youtube]

    [youtube]AK2w0J84vFw[/youtube]

    [youtube]KLNv6SYzofU[/youtube]
     
  2. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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    You know who I'll be pulling for next year...Justin James out of WyoMING! ;)
     
  3. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Reported. Off topic.

    :p
     
    #3 jbasket, Dec 5, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  4. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    These guys both look pretty good, and I think they will be oft-compared throughout the year, which has merit of course, being same positions with different skills and talents.

    Clutch, I do think they will be out of our pick range though. Surprisingly (I know), but these guys will, at least based on many current mocks, will be in the top 10 of the lottery next draft, and I do not see the Rockets in a draft pick near the lottery next draft. We are actually playing like a team again.

    With regards to the Rockets, give me Murray, and I don't mean the GM.

    1) He is more refined: better ability to shoot.
    2) Ability to play both 1 and 2 - has better off-ball capabilities and offensive awareness.
    3) Dunn seems more "prospect"- based. Needs to work on a jumper, has a lot of defensive potential, needs to work on his handles... In the current Rockets position, is it worth it to trade up for a non-immediate contributor?

    Maybe it's just me, but I am not ready to give up on Lawson's tenure here quite yet...


    Why are you not pulling for him now Roc?? ;) Hope you're doing well!
     
  5. basketballholic

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    Hmmmmmm, what could have been. I was hoping for Dunn in the draft as well. Wanted him over Grant. Thought he was the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the draft up there with Russell and Mudiay. But he opted out of the draft and that's ancient history as far as I'm concerned now.

    As far as Dunn and Murray goes, obviously Murray is the better offensive player. But he's just a frosh. Gonna be hard for him to be a difference maker on the next level next year. Gonna take him a couple seasons in the NBA if he comes out to really be a good NBA player. And then I don't know how good he's going to be defensively.

    Dunn is ready to go as far as the NBA goes. He has an identity and a greatly developed skill with his perimeter defense. He could step into an NBA rotation tomorrow and made a difference with his perimeter D. But I'm afraid he'd have trouble offensively, specifically with his turnovers and that fact that his distance jump shot is lacking. And on a team like ours with a ball-dominant Harden, I think that would add to his offensive woes as he would be primarily used off-the-ball. Looks like a decent playmaker, with high turnovers but plenty of sensational plays...like Harden.

    The other factor here with Dunn and Murray as applied to us is they're probably going to go top 10. To get one of those guys almost certainly necessitates losing Harden to a season-ending injury. Because although we might miss the playoffs we're gonna be fighting like .... to get in which means we'd most likely be at the lower end of the lottery (12-14) if we miss the playoffs this season.

    With that said...I've kinda quit scouting Dunn and went to examining other possibilities. And I've kinda fallen for another kid that I'd like to see in the backcourt alongside Harden.

    That is, one Caris Levert.

    DraftExpress currently has him at #22. I find it hard to believe he actually stays that low. Think he'll possibly rise. But if we miss the playoffs we may be able to nab him in the low end of the lottery. Or possibly we can trade our 2 firsts to get up into the low end of the first round and nab him. He broke his foot last season and missed about half the season so the injury risk is there.

    He's built somewhat like Corey Brewer with the thin frame but he's got higher hips, not quite as tall but probably close to the same overall length. Probably has a good 3 to 4 inches of length on Dunn and Dunn is very long for a PG already with a wingspan of like 6'8". Levert has the ability to check 1's, 2's, and 3's and he's actually probably a better defender on 1's than on 3's because he's so thin. However, he's very aggressive and is showing no signs of rust this season coming back off his foot injury. Been watching him for awhile now. I think I actually like him now more than I like Dunn. Didn't feel this way last season. But this kid has taken it to another level this season.

    He can: catch-and-shoot, make plays off the dribble, finish, draw fouls and get on the FT line and knock them down, shoot from distance, and he's got great defensive potential as well. Not to mention he's become a sensational playmaker. Is very unselfish. Great attitude. Great work ethic. All the right intangibles.

    Watch him play.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o-b7q0Xg3ys" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lxtrKOmHS2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mij0gthvtFk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Follow the link to DraftExpress' report on him:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYel4gbufa8


    As far as other options go, I'm also looking at Gary Payton II in the second round. He's got the pedigree (Gary Payton's son). And you can tell his daddy has really taught him the defensive end. This dude lays it all out there defensively. This season at least he's been a very good shooter as well. Not a good "point guard" as far as being a playmaker. But in the Beverley role alongside Harden I believe he'd be a great fit. Has almost the same length as Dunn (just a little shorter), and is extremely athletic as well. Not to mention his rebounding numbers are off the charts for a PG. This is another guy I'm wondering why DraftExpress has him so low in the second. Looks like he should be there if we keep our second round picks. I'd definitely take him if we don't land another PG solution first. I think he's similar to Dunn in that he's ready to go defensively.

    One more option that I've been digging for video on is David Walker from NorthEastern. Currently projected as a late second rounder. He's got the offensive tools to be successful. Good size and length and athleticism. Great shooter. Sees the floor well. Good passer. Good in pick-and-roll. But it's difficult to get footage of his D and they're in a nothing conference so they don't really play anybody. Although they did play Florida State a while back and he had a very good game against them. He has enough athleticism to be an effective defender. I just haven't gotten ahold of any video to see him on the defensive end. All his videos are offensive highlights. But he's worth watching.
     
    #5 basketballholic, Dec 6, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  6. Progs

    Progs Member

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    Demetrius Jackson

    ...from Notre Dame is going to be good in the NBA.

    He is a PG who is a gifted scorer but he is a pretty good passer and has a high basketball IQ.
    He is 6'1 but has a strong athletic build and has great athleticism to boot. He is a slasher who can shoot it from 3 pt line. The numbers have indicated that for the last two years. On defense he is 6'1 but has a long wingspan and is a pesky defender.Plays with heart and someone will end up with a good player late in the lottery. This years draft has 4 pretty good point guard off he top of my head.

    Dunn
    Murray
    Jackson
    Trimble
     
  7. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Yeah I honestly like all four of those guys (Dunn, Murray, Jackson and Trimble) as potential fits for our team, but for different reasons.

    Dunn: He's currently #4 or #5 on my Big Board, but he might make the least sense of the four in terms of fit with Harden. His upside is John Wall, his downside is a more advanced Elfrid Payton.

    Basically, he's a long, athletic 6'4" 205 playmaker who can defend, rebound, get to the rim and stuff the stat-sheet. His downside is that he's 21 (almost 22), a shaky outside shooter still, and had some serious injuries a few years ago (though he's stayed healthy since).

    Murray: He's currently in the #6 to #8 range on my Big Board. He's definitely a combo, but the type of combo that would work in theory with Harden. He's also big (6'4" to 6'5", 207), but more of a smooth operator than a great athlete. He's a scorer first, who's natural with the ball in his hands, but he has the poise to grow into more than just a microwave guy (he's still forcing the issue a bit, but that's excusable at only 18 years old).

    He also has upside as a weapon off the ball with a great stroke/range from deep. He's been inconsistent shooting so far, but I'm sure his %s will rise as he gets more comfortable. I don't think he's going to more than a average/solid defender though.

    D.Jackson: He's at #12 on my Big Board, but could go a little lower. Now this is a guy who should be in our draft range and should fit well with Harden. He's only
    6'1", but he's strong (195) with a solid wingspan and explosive athleticism.

    He played off the ball next to Jerian Grant last year, and stayed incredibly efficient, with a smooth stroke from deep. This year, he's taken the driver's seat and stayed efficient + upped all his numbers. He's the type of off-ball/on-ball PG that I think would be perfect with Harden.

    Trimble: I have him #18-#20 on my Big Board. This guy is intriguing for several reasons -- one of them being that he took a page out of Harden's book offensively. He gets to the line at a ridiculous rate for a college PG + he knocks them down. He knocks down his Js and his shot-selection is good + he doesn't turn it over much.

    He's a solid athlete with solid size, and even though he's a scorer first, he doesn't force the issue.
     
  8. Progs

    Progs Member

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    Rowan Barrett Jr.[/B][/B]

    Don't forget that name. High School freshman, only 15 yrs old an already putting big numbers for Montverde Academy out of Florida high school. He is a left handed Tracy McGradish with a better motor overall. IMO he is the best long term high school prospect right now.
     
  9. basketballholic

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    Trimble, while a good college player and fun to watch, is just another dime-a-dozen scoring point guard in the NBA. He's not going to be able to be a plus defender and his offensive skills are very common. He will most likely be either a career backup or he'll spend a good portion of his career in Europe. Good kid. Nice player at the collegiate level. Common talent at the NBA level.

    If Jackson falls to the second round he might have value there. For our team I'd have to compare his shooting and defense to other candidates available at our pick. I do like him but he is very small and I don't see outstanding intangibles and skills on-court that make his size a non-issue like I saw with Steph Curry. And he is smaller than Steph.
     
  10. basketballholic

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    Here's another kid worth watching. Wade Baldwin

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bB48KN96E0M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    He's 6'3" with a 6'10" wingspan translating to an 8'5" standing reach. That's Kris Dunn territory. And as you can see he's very athletic. Has a little bit of a nasty attitude. But he's got a good degree of bball iq to go along with the attitude. And his nasty attitude can be channeled into a plus.

    Has a little bit of everything. He hasn't shown to be as good on the defensive end as Dunn but...he's a good defender and has the physical tools to become even better. Offensively, he's better than Dunn. Much better shooter. And those long arms sure help him finish in traffic. I really liked that wrap-around layup with the left hand. Shows he's got touch. He's worth keeping tabs on to see how he develops throughout this season.
     
  11. tmactoyao

    tmactoyao Member

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    Dunn with a step-back game winner on the road
     
  12. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Providence's Kris Dunn will declare for the 2016 NBA Draft, sources told <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSSports">@CBSSports</a>. Story: <a href="https://t.co/bpstYGKqxg">https://t.co/bpstYGKqxg</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/pcbb?src=hash">#pcbb</a></p>&mdash; Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/712315414127255552">March 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  13. basketballholic

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    Gary Payton II really came on the last half of this season. His playmaking improved leaps and bounds. Defense and rebounding still off the charts. The only part of his game that isn't developing (yet) is his jump shot. He very well could become a steal in the second round. I'd take him at 38 if Levert proves to have a serious on-going issue with his left leg.
     

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