Kosovan Muslim 'shouted Islamic slogans' before shooting dead two U.S. airmen at FRA

I'm a Pakistani-American and went to Israel in the Summer of 2009. Stayed in both Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and went on a tour of Palestine with a great Palestinian tour guide, Abu Hassan.

You'll have a tough time going to both Lebanon and Israel on the same trip though. Although my old passport wasn't stamped with an Israel stamp (they stamped a separate sheet of paper for me upon request), I did have an entry visa for Taba, Egypt which essentially shows that I was in Israel (there is no where to enter Taba from other than Israel). For this reason, I applied for a new passport before planning my upcoming trip to Syria and Lebanon.

Not sure about cheap flights to Turkey in June - I booked a direct flight from Chicago to Istanbul on Turkish Air for this Friday on miles. The cash fare was approximately $900. We booked a flight on a low-cost domestic airline to get from Istanbul to Antakya, Turkey (on the Syrian border) for $30 one-way. We'll take a short cab ride into Syria, rent a car from Aleppo, drive around Syria and into Lebanon.

 

I was just there. First of all, I know you (as do I) disagree with the Israeli occupation but Israel really is a great country to visit and there is a lot to see. I think its ok to learn about different cultures even if you disagree with them. I met a lot of wonderful people in Israel. (I couchsurfed my way through there so I basically stayed with random Israelis I never met before) Hell one Eritrean refugee in Tel Aviv spent an hour trying to get me a working sim card (including yelling at another store to fix my phone for free). Although it helped that he was wearing a shirt with Texas on it and I was from Texas.

But if you really insist on it, you can absolutely restrict yourself to going through Palestinian areas. In Israel proper there really isnt too much outside of some enclaves here and there (Jaffa, Nazareth etc..) but there isnt that much to do there. East Jerusalem is the one notable exception but as you go further east there really isnt all that much to do. Generally most stuff is around the Old City.

Going in and out of the West Bank is fairly straightforward. Going into the West Bank is very easy, you can just drive right through. Getting out is the actual checkpoint and on most days its fairly easy although the traffic can make it slow. But the Israelis dont ask any questions. Just show your passport with a valid visa if they ask and you're fine. Easiest way in my opinion is to hop on a bus in Jerusalem and head to Ramallah. From there you can grab a taxi to go elsewhere or head to the Ramallah bus station which has buses for other major Palestinian cities.

There are also a lot of tour groups run out of Jerusalem by Palestinians that will do group tours throughout the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Also a lot of these guys have Israeli permits so they can use the entire stretch of highway so you avoid a lot of checkpoints and save time. And they'll give you a good glimpse on life from their perspective.

Also a random tip. In the realm of soft drinks, Palestinians buy RC Cola since it is actually made in the West Bank while coke is imported from Israel. So if you're in the West Bank I suggest you do the same. Also, the one brewery in the entire Middle East is in a small town called Taybeh in the West Bank. Very cool to visit and see that over there. It's actually fairly decent beer at that.

 

I made the trip from Lebanon to Jordan to Israel. It really wasnt that bad outside of a 20 minute questioning at the airport. But generally just stay calm, say you're a tourist and be honest. One guy I met in Bethlehem had gone through Syria, Lebanon and Iran before stopping in Israel and got in just fine. The guy who questioned me was very polite and helpful.

However, you cant go to Israel and then Lebanon. Lebanon will turn you away because of an Israeli stamp or a stamp that indicates crossing a border (entry through Taba, Arava, etc..). So Israel should always be your last stop (unless you plan on going to Jordan or Egypt.

 

Israel was my first stop, so I figured a new passport would be a good idea for future Middle Eastern travel.

 

No wonder you resort to ad hominem arguments then. No one respects you or your viewpoints.

 

Wow. Possibly the worst piece of argument in the history of clutchfans. Really? You're going to use that small frame period (and others) to justify your hatred?

More Jews were killed by Germans in a two year period than Palestinians in the past 60 years.

Anyone can make such ridiculous arguments. But it's only expected from someone like you.

 

It's not gang-related, there is no need to study the religious side of it. The motive is perceived injustice towards Muslims. The motive is not religion. For the motive to be religion, you would have to find an ideology that says go kill American soldiers. I'm sure this guy didn't even know if one of the soldiers he killed might have been Muslim. It is an attack on America, by a person who believes America is at war with some mythical organized Islamic 'nation'.

Just like when that Christian dude shot that politician woman. Every one was quite clear that it was just a maniac. That his motive was perceived injustice towards his people. That the motivation did not come out of Christianity.

Why are you being thick?

You claim to want to fight terrorism, but want to waste your time identifying areas where you can justify your bigotry and overall ignorance.

 

Because there is no contradiction.

For the motive to be religion, you have to assume religion commanded the attack.

Since you have made it clear that you consider Islam as one ideology, and the only common text in Islam is the Quran, please show me where in the Quran where it is commanded to attack American soldiers.

Thanks, look forward to it.

 

I'm sure you mean Muslims and not Islam. The religion cannot change (it's been the same for 1400 years), people can (and should, to the better).

 

No, let's be logical here.

You say Islam is one ideology. You blame the ideology of Islam for this crime. There is one common text that Muslims share, that text is the Quran.

Where in the Quran did this command come from. I'd be happy with soldier, military, anything.

Where does it say: go be the INSTIGATOR and murder people of X group outside a war zone.

I'll pre-empt your predictability as well. Don't bring any weak sauce here from a passage that clearly states that it has to be in self-defense.

It's very logical. You say that Islam is the motive. Luckily there is a well-defined common text which bonds all the Muslims. Let's see it.

 

If you don't see how r****ded this reasoning, then there is absolutely no hope for you.

 

Thanks, I think you may have convinced me to go to Israel. Certainly my many Jewish Zionist friends, including the couple we went out to dinner tonight, would be happy. (We don't get into political discussions often on the topic.) One woman is actually from Israel and she is always telling me how great it would be to go visit. I think part of the attraction is partly that it seems like their is a lot to do in a relatively small area.

 

Thanks for admitting that there is no such place.

Also, thanks for admitting that these people claim that the motive is one central ideology called Islam, despite a lack of evidence to show it.

In case you're interested in being logical, here's an example for dummies: I can claim that Islam as a myhtical unified ideology tells Muslims to eat tons of pork chops. Why is that not true?

You've embarassed yourself enough now, it's time to move on.

 

Good article, also shows all the major views in Germany, out of which ATW appears to be the most extremist.