Kobe's accuser tells her story.

1. Hold on Matlock, I don't think that the "hesitate to kill" moniker applies in this situation.

2. He did not point a gun to her head.

3. See #1

4. She was in a hotel that she worked at, she knew all the employees and WAS in her comfort zone until Kobe allegedly took her out of it.

To say that someone that is in fear of being raped never screams is ludicrous. Noise and attention will normally stop the rapist.

To scream was an option, she didn't utilize that option. I feel bad for what happened, but Kobe is looking a lot better today than he did yesterday.

There is a profound difference between not wanting it to happen, and stopping it from happening.

 

There is a vast gulf that separates us.

 

If Kobe did indeed do this, I hope it happens to him ten folds in jail.

 

I can only assume you misspoke. Care to clarify?

I can see an argument for he doesn't look any worse than he did yesterday(though not in the eyes of the mass public), but better ? Nuh-uh. Don't see it.

 

This is weird. Considering Kobe's reputation previous to this incident, I fully expected the details of this case to be more along the lines of the girl agreeing to intercourse, and then deciding in the middle that she didn't want to go on, told him "no" a few times (maybe even not convincingly so) and he continued. He finishes, she leaves crying and cries rape. It would have been a hazy case, but I suppose it still would have been rape, to most.

But Kobe putting his hands around her neck? Possibly choking her and bending her over forcibly? It just all sounds a little too out of character for him (admitedly, none of us really know what his character is...but I mean his outward, public character). Certainly it's not out of the realm of possibility, but these new details make me doubt the girl more than they make me suspect Kobe.

 

Let me chip in my two cents.

It's a rape case, the alleged details, until proven, shouldn't make Kobe seem more likely of commiting the crime.

According to the accuser, the extent of Kobe's behavior does make him look better than an ordinary rapist. First of all, part of it was consensual. Second, no weapons were used. Third, no verbal intimidation was involved. Fourth, no significant violence was invloved. Clutching neck is a normal behavior of some macho people while having sex. It can be interpretated in both ways, physical intimidation for the accuser or a sort of fetish for the defendant. As to continuing sex while being said "no" to, circumstances have it that sometimes "no" can be construed as approval of continuation. Not to defend Kobe here, but the details provided by the accuser opens a door for misinterpretation on Kobe's part, or misinterpretation on the accuser's part. Kobe does look better to win the case, or to alleviate the punishment, or in regard to his motives --- it looks like Kobe didn't plan ahead to rape in case it did happen.

 

A question here, unrelated to whether or not Kobe will be found guilty or innocent.

Can anybody here actually picture continuing to have sex with a girl who is crying, and I don't mean crying for joy? How can a man even stay hard when a girl is crying in disbelief or abject fear, saying 'no'.... I just don't get it. I just don't get it at all. It's just so monstrous. (And maybe it didn't really happen in this case, but still... just wondering out loud.)

More on topic, I think it's significant that the first thing she did was go downstairs and tell the bellman what happened. She has nothing to gain by making this accusation and everything to lose. This does not mean that Kobe will be convicted, for the reasons Panda has detailed. I think there's definitely enough leeway for an expert defense team to get Kobe off the hook, or at least a light sentence at worst.

 

Personally, I think the potential to get a big chunk of Kobe's huge earnings and estate is plenty to gain. I'm not saying that is why she did it, but it is not something that can be dismissed when looking at potential gains and losses on her part.

 

Am I missing something here? According to FOX news, the evidence presented today, the prosecution only has evidence of slight vaginal tears with bleeding and a small bruise on her jaw. You guys are talking like there is neck bruising and/or scratches. From what I have heard so far, there are no photos of bruising or scratches on the neck, thighs, arms, wrists or buttocks. Is this not true? And it looks like Pam Mackey is going to try to prove that the alleged victim had sex with 3 men in as many days and probably try to blame one of the other men she allegedly slept with for her vaginal injuries. Man when she dropped that bomb about the 3 men, the judge freaked out and cleared the whole courtroom immediately!

 

Thursday, October 9, 2003
Associated Press

EAGLE, Colo. -- The woman who accused Kobe Bryant of rape told police a flirtatious encounter quickly turned ugly when he grabbed her by the neck, bent her over a chair and attacked her, repeatedly asking, "You're not going to tell anybody about this, right?"

The 19-year-old woman was raped after agreeing to go to Bryant's suite at the resort where she worked, testified Eagle County Sheriff's Detective Doug Winters at a preliminary hearing Thursday to determine whether Bryant will stand trial.

The hearing -- expected to last only an afternoon -- was finally adjourned after more than six hours, an indication the trial could be long and laborious for both sides. Judge Frederick Gannett said it would continue next Wednesday, and the district attorney's office said Bryant had to appear.

Winters described in graphic detail for a packed courtroom how, according to the woman, an exciting, chance meeting with the Los Angeles Lakers superstar led to a nightmarish assault that left her shaken and in tears.

She said she told Bryant "no" at least twice and he ignored her, pulling her dress up and her underwear down and raping her from behind.

At one point, the woman told police, Bryant forced her to face him and say "no" when he asked if she was going to tell anyone. After the attack, Bryant made her kiss his penis, Winters said the woman told investigators.

Bryant, 25, has insisted the sex was consensual. He sat at the defense table staring straight at Winters for much of the hearing, hands folded in front of him. Bryant occasionally clenched his jaw, but showed little other reaction.

Though the testimony was graphic, the most explosive statement came from Bryant's own defense attorney when she suggested under cross examination that the woman's injuries would also be "consistent with a person who has had sex with three different men in three days."

That led an angry Gannett to empty the courtroom and summon the lawyers to his chambers. Gannett was also upset earlier when defense attorney Pamela Mackey said the woman's name four times when asking questions.

She apologized, saying she would write herself a big note not to say it.

"Or I could get you a big muzzle," Gannett said.

Winters, the only witness of the afternoon, recounted what the woman told him in an hourlong interview the day after she met Bryant at the resort. It all began with a tour of the hotel on June 30 that led to some flirting. She went back to Bryant's room and showed him a tattoo on her ankle, then turned down his request to join him in the hot tub, Winters said.

Her shift at the front desk was ending and she wanted to go home, he said, and "she was starting to feel a bit uncomfortable."

Winters said she stood up to leave and Bryant gave her a hug that led to some consensual kissing, Winters said.

But when she turned to go, Bryant grabbed her by the neck, pulled up her black dress and raped her against a chair, Winters said. She told investigators she said "no" at least twice, before bursting into tears as the five-minute attack went on.

Bryant wasn't holding her neck so tight she couldn't breathe, Winters said, but enough to control her movement.

"She was afraid that he was going to choke her," he said.

Afterward, Bryant told the woman to clean up, Winters said. She fixed her hair, wiped her face and left after again promising to remain silent.

She went back to the front desk to finish up her work and finally left the resort with an unidentified bellman, Winters said. She told him what happened and he urged her to report it, later following her home.

Winters testified that the woman's blood was found on the inside of Bryant's T-shirt, based on DNA tests. The woman told him she had bled from the attack, he said.

The prosecution also presented photographs showing vaginal injuries and one of a bruise on the woman's jaw, and a rape nurse's statement that her injuries were not consistent with consensual sex.

Mackey, though, suggested Winters had no idea when the bruise occurred, and got him to acknowledge that the woman needed no treatment for injuries when she was examined. She also questioned him on whether he saw marks on her neck when he interviewed her the next day.

"She talks on how Mr. Kobe Bryant grabbed her neck and choked her," Mackey told Winters. "You looked at her neck to see?"

Winters said he had, then Mackey asked him if he saw any injuries on her neck.

"Not from the front, no," he said.

"Not a red mark?" she asked.

"That's correct," he said.

"Not a scratch?"

"That's correct."

Winters said the woman seemed serious when he first interviewed her with her parents at their Eagle home.

"I sensed a crackle in her voice," he said. "She stated that he raped her."

Bryant faces up to life in prison if convicted of a felony charge of sexual assault. The judge said he would not rule Thursday on whether to proceed to trial.

Legal experts had expected the defense to waive the hearing and head straight to trial rather than allow prosecutors to lay out their case for the first time -- evidence that will be discussed in public for months.

Gannett had rejected defense requests to have the woman testify and to see her medical records.

The hearing began as hundreds of reporters and a handful of spectators gathered outside the courthouse to catch a glimpse of Bryant as he arrived with his lawyers in a caravan of three SUVs. He said nothing to the crowd.

Bryant had to take off a necklace and was checked with metal detectors before walking into the courtroom.

Bryant, free on $25,000 bond, had been ordered to appear in court for a bond hearing even if the preliminary hearing was waived. He left the Hawaii training camp of the Los Angeles Lakers on Wednesday.

Bryant has the right to go to trial within six months after entering a plea, but he could agree to push that back until later, perhaps after the NBA season ends early next summer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1634132

 

hahahah he's guilty! Lock him up and throw away the key! Kobe Or Tmac Best all Around? TMAC! LOL...Thank god i'm a mac fan. I Idolize a guy who has a wife and a daughter and Is never in the news for trouble.
This is great...Tmac=Best Overall Player In The League...kobe=Overratted Clown Rapist who has 3 rings because of shaq...
ahahhah can't get any sweeter! I can't wait to see the people of LA or laker fans or People holding kobe rookie cards and all that high priced memorabilia when the jury says...
"We The Jury, Find Kobe Bryant...Guilty Of Rape...and sentence him to Life in prison" LMAO...That would be so funny... or something like that, hahahah

Who's # 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

yeh, I'm thinking along the same line.

I, being a man, always think rape is a hard thing to do if there is full resistance, unless the girl got traumatized. Part of the sexual act, not intercourse necessary could be agreed upon in this case. She may wispered a fainted "no", to which Kobe interpreted not as a straight up "no", but a sexual act. She probably didn't resist other than wispering a "no".

Of course, legally it still constitutes a rape, if all she said was true.

 

...Wow you sure are taking a little too much joy in this ...and since when is T-Mac married?

P.S. I'm not a biased Kobe fan

 

Wouldn't that be true only if this were a civil case? This isn't one, right? It's just a matter of determining innocence or guilt, and then the sentence/punishment if he's guilty.

Wait... these things are settled out of court all the time, right? Often for millions of dollars. Hmmmmm, if that's the case, then of course I would have to retract what I said that she has nothing to gain. Somebody with more knowledge fill me in.

 

Take a look at whos#1's post.

 

I'm sorry Panda, but according to your reasoning, the only way Kobe's behavior would make him look like an ordinary rapist would be if he used a weapon. All your other "normal behaviors" and "misinterpretations" seem pretty common EXCUSES in rape cases. Maybe Kobe is innocent but if the defense presents their case like you did above, it'll make me sick.

 

I cant believe you have a kid. Your a sicko. I guess If a girl on a date kisses a guy,then its okay for him to rape her from behind even if she bleeds because rapists know,that people like you on the juror pool,will let him free since she consented to some acts atleast.

God,some rocket fans really amaze me.

 

No excuses, but reasons.

You misrepresented my point. Presence of weapons would severely affect a case. It might break or make a case, and the absence of it in a crime would be considered as lesser offense. For example, there is a vast difference in sentence between robbery with or without a weapon. The same applies to rape. My point is that the lack of it would make Kobe's rape less than a man holding a gun against the head of a woman, and results in lighter sentence.

There are other points that you throw away as excuses. Such as presence of consensuality, lack of verbal intimidation and violence. I don't know how in the world would you think those ingredients are excuses, and why would Kobe's defense team using them make you sick? Is that because you already think Kobe as a rapist and anything that defends him is construed as excuses? What are the criteria for reasons and excuses in your eyes?How about enlightening us on how would you defend Kobe besides those excuses? Please don't tell me you would wave a white flag and beg for leniency. And sorry if I told you that ordinary rapists force action without any from of consent while issuing verbal and phsycal threats to the victims, sometimes with a weapon, for this seems so out of the world for you. It's reasonable to say that the presence of these "excuses" helps Kobe's defense, I don't see why there's a fuss about it. Even if Kobe's convicted, those "excuses" helps alleviating punishment.

Except a few points, such as being tearful and saying no in the process of sex, all the accuser said can be reasonably interpretated in other ways. Even the "no" part isn't always necessarilly tied to rape. That relates to the mentality of the victim. Ever heard of playing the rape game? Regardless you like it or not, I expect the defense team using those "excuses" to defend Kobe.

 

Kissing and hugging is not sex, even to Bill Clinton, so what consensual sex did she agree to, which is what 'consensual' means.

If you read excerpts from the hearing you must have a very high threshold of violence or the threat of violence to conclude otherwise.