Taken from Ric Bucher. Link "I understand. He doesn't do funny commercials. He seemed to be channeling all of MJ's mannerisms his first few years while denying any similarity. He has a nasty edge that he sometimes inflicts on people who meant him no harm. He doesn't have Shaq's seal of approval. The list of reasons those who don't like him is long and varied. But how many times does one man have to drop iodine tablets into the same village well to make it potable? How many times must Kobe demonstrate that no one in the league -- and I mean no one -- has his combination of skill, tenacity, understanding of time and score, killer instinct and ability to control the game at the both ends?"
I agree, he's the most dominant perimeter player in the league. Whether people like him or not (and I do think there are more Kobe fans than most are willing to admit...lots of closet fans), his play speaks for itself. Duncan and Kobe are the best big man and swingman in the league today, respectively.
And that is why I don't buy they T-Mac excuse about being worn down because he had to carry teams early in his career. You mean to tell me that a player barely 6ft tall and weighs MAYBE 180lbs can take punishment year in and year out, play with dislocated shoulders, elbows, broken fingers, etc and not be worn down by age THIRTY which is a full 3 years older than T-Mac? Iverson still kicks butt and then some. Let me offset that comment by saying that T-Mac is just deferring way to much for whatever reason and is making excuses for his play for whatever reason. Personally, I think he is rusty. But when you hear him talk, its tough to take. Stop with the "woe is me" shiznet and just drive the ball to the hoop, please. We need you, big guy. Imagine if you woke up how good we could be!
I dont think you watched the entire Magic situation play out. Situations are not the same... family dying, back problems, grant hill... and a coach in freaking Johnny Davis and a jr hockey league GM. I think JVG should design some offense to get them easy drives and backets. This offense blows harder than Moby Dick. They pass into Yao and stand there like the USA vs any team in Fiba. That's some sorry offense in this day and time and its designed like that. I'm sure Phil could get Tmac some eaasy shots or fastbreaks because he's a far greater manager than assistant coach.
as much as I hate to admit, Zboy's posts on tmac are right. Time and time again he wilts when things go wrong for a stretch and starts making excuses on TV. i dont think he's over the hill though. His game is more refined. He needs that dog instinct and some work on his jumpshot.
Tmac and Kobe are great individually talented basketball players. Tmac is no longer as physicially gifted and is dropping off faster than Kobe (Tmac a few years ago was his peer in basketball talent). However neither Kobe nor Tmac however have shown to date they can bring the best out of their teammates, particularly apparent in the playoffs. The closest player to Jordan since Jordan is not Kobe, but D Wade. He is the only swingman to carry his team on his back to a title. Kobe and Tmac have never got their teams out of the 1st round, both haven't even been able to deliver with 3-1 leads I believe, Lebron has already shown more fight and success as the man of the team in the playoffs. Glad to see Kobe ripping the Jazz though, burst some of that bubble.
Tmac sitting on the bench was a coach's decision based on the game being out of reach...don't misrepresent him by saying he gave up on his team and asked to sit out the last quarter. Kobe on the otherhand just thought it would be a good idea to "get everyone involved" and lose by 30 pts in game 7. Great players know when to take over games and Kobe obviously didn't know and didn't do it. Secondly, who are you trying to kid by saying that yao was the same player two years ago that he is now. Sure he was a top center but that doesnt say anything considering that there are no quality centers in this league besides yao and shaq. Yao was still very passive two years ago and many of his points were created by tmacs playmaking ability. The fact of the matter is we got outmatched and out benched in that series and sure there mightve been bad decisions but you tell me whats worse: 3fg attempts in the entire second half of game 7 by Kobe or a couple bad jumpshots in game 7 when tmac was hot the entire series. I'll bet you if Kobe and Lamar went up against them that year it wouldve been the same result. I'm just saying hold Kobe up to the same post season standards after the shaq era as you do with TMac. Secondly, this year is an anamoly of his career thus far don't go bashing anything off 15 games especially when we have a better record than the Lakers. Dennis Lindsey even said on 610 that Tmacs shot will come back. Defenders will collapse more and it will open up more penetrating/assist opportunities. We'll do this as a hypothetical test case...take kobe out of the 3 peat lakers and put Tmac in the way he played in '04. Would they win a championship? I would say probably yes. How does that prove that Kobe has heart and Tmac doesn't?? The NBA is way too good to not be a product of your circumstance. Hence, the reason Tmac wanted out of orlando and why kobe didn't want to play for a perenial loser like charlotte. Are you denying the fact that MJ was the strongest player mentally to play the game? I'll go even further and say mentally, he's the greatest athlete of our time. So why are you making him the benchmark for which players must achieve?? It just isn't gonna happen. And I am not denying the fact that Kobe might be a better player than Tmac...he obviously has a great skillset that can't be matched by anyone in the nba. But youre moving away from the point that you made that kobe has all heart and Tmac has none. I'm contradicting myself? PJ was the one who said it, not me. Read The Last Season and go ask him why he called him that. I'm not denying the fact that he's a great coach but let's not be nieve and think the man can turn water into wine by taking a bottom seeded lakers to the championship. And you think he's proven himself after losing the series? psh... You don't prove greatness until you achieve greatness and I really dont think Phil can do it with these Lakers. And I'm not saying Tmac has proven he's a winner in the dallas series but I'm just saying that he still has heart and you don't need to win to prove that...just ask AI, KG, reggie miller, etc.
Some people here can't admit that Kobe has surpassed Tmac. It's really surprising since Kobe surpassed Tmac about 2-3 years ago. You can find a lot of people of the same people on the Heats board that refuses to believe Yao is better than Shaq. It's sad really. Ability-wise, they are both superb. Athletic, great ball control, and can finish around the hoop with ease. Skill-wise on the other hand, Kobe has developed himself every year, increasing his range, perfecting his jumpshot, working on his bank shot, and getting stronger and quicker. Tmac now is the same as Tmac of 3 years ago except he's 3 years older with more injuries and more mileage. He's still a great player but his game has not kept up with his body.
I know we all value objectivity but what do you expect? We are rocket fans and we defend our own. I think it's the same for every team. All I'm going to admit is that T-Mac is struggling right now and Kobe had a superb game last night.
Oh how we forget. The Katrina game? Tmac had range from beyond 30 feet out. 2 years ago Kobe was injurd alot during the season, and missed the playoffs and Tmac was the man. It really is an unfair comparison due to different situations. Now put Kobe in the situations Tmac was in and he'll flounder just as he did under Rudy three.
You should have stopped even before you started to read my post since I never *blamed* Tmac's lack of "Kobeness" on Gundy. I dont blame Gundy for not taking his game mentally to the next level. That is more of a Tmac's reponsibility. Gundy is an X&O coach and well rehearsed in defensive strategy. What I am saying is that since Tmac needs that extra push, it is unfortunate that Phil Jackson was not brought in here when he was willing to come to Houston because HE has the ability to refine players. It is a BONUS you get from Phil Jackson which you dont get from Gundy. No blame on Gundy, just that he doest come with that intangible. But since you are so defensive about Gundy, you failed to comprehend that and turned it into a blame post. Typical.
If someone who has 3 championship rings is a stuck up loser, I am afraid to think what Tmac would be called.
Umm... No. YOU don't like him. I find his approach to the game very likeable. And I'm pretty f'in sure others do to.
I agree with what you are saying and I will take it even further. As you said, Kobe Braynt has the best jumper since Jordan. In fact, the punk has tried to emulate Jordan so hard all these years, he has pretty much a carbon copy mechanics of the Jordan jumper. That jumper gets even more reliable as game gets tighter. Kobe is also better at creating space for his jumpshot. Mechanics are rock solid. Tmac is a different kind of animal. He doesnt create the same kind of space like Kobe, but he gets up higher so the end result is the same. Tmac also has longer ranger than Kobe. Howeve, it should be noted that most often he uses a pick for his shots. This again has to do with creating space and quickness. Tmac has already admitted Kobe is quicker than him and Kobe takes advantage of it. Although Kobe's jumper is more reliable through out the game, Tmac's jumper is just as good as Kobe in clutch. Honestly, if it came to taking a last jumpshot, either Tmac or Kobe would be money. Kobe is is one of the top finishers in the game however and he does have an advantage over Tmac in this regards. Kobe, very much like MJ, is pretty much unguardable when he gets close to the basket. Another area where Kobe is better is low-post game. I have always wished Tmac would work on his post game and punish defenders down low. He has the height advantage over Kobe yet Kobe has better post moves. Argh... In terms of talent, the area where Tmac has a clear advantage over Kobe is court vision. Despite other deficiencies in his game, this one area of his is so good that he can cover them up. He has the tools to dominate individually AND make his teammates better. Both are extremely talented but not exactly similar. You can make a point that at a talent level, based on above points, Kobe might be a little better than Tmac. But this is not what makes them different IMO. What makes them different is the mental aspect of the game and how they approach each and every game.... 1) Kobe is a mean sonufabeetch. Much like Jordan he will slash your throat on the court for a win. 2) Kobe always seems to be hungry. He is just intense. 3) If you are physcial with him, he will come right at you. he does not shy away from contact. In fact, he seems to relish it. 4) He has probably the best work ethic in the NBA if not the best. This explains his top endurance as you alluded to. 5) You can call him selfish and I will agree with you. But its also the reason he constantly strives to the best in the game. I wish Tmac would just stop talking and raving about himself in magazine interviews and just quietly prove himself on the court. I dont necessarily agree with the expenditure of energy. In fact I think because of his height, Tmac expends less energy to get his shot off, espcially since he utilizes a pick. Kobe uses more energy but his shot is more refined. Agreed. Agreed. See point 4 above about work ethic. You might be right. But I will wait out and see. Traditionally Tmac has been a slow starter so I am hopeful he will turn it around. And he is coming off a season filled with injuries. Hoever, Kobe is coming off of a knee surgery too but his progress is coming on nicely. Again, this comes to mental toughness and work ethic, both of which are Kobe's forte. Damn right he is! But I will say this...if his jumper doesnt come back, Rockets offense will collpase in playoffs. Teams will just invite Tmac to shoot from a distance and he will not be able to attract defenders to open things up for himself and everyone else. His game as it is right now, is sufficient to win against average teams but ot against elite teams.
First of all you dont know whether Tmac asked Gundy to take him out or Gundy decided by himself. And even if Gundy took him out, I find it hard to believe that had Tmac told Gundy, "no I am staying" Gundy would not let him stay. If you are going to bring out the Kobe game 7, then you will have to eat the Tmac game 7 blowout too. You cant have one and not the other. Yao of two years ago was still better than anyone the Lakers had last year. Yao was an inside presence and that cannot be discounted. So were the Lakers. To me both are pathetic but this wasnt about one game. You made it out to be. And Tmac was not hot for the entire series. The last 2 games in Dallas you clearly saw a decline in his performance. In fact as the series went on, he started to rely more on his jumpers and less on the agressiveness he had started off the series with. Same thing in the Detroit seires. It's all about mental toughness. I did not base it on this year or a game 7 only. I based it on his career and his playoff collapses. I am hopeful that it will and if you read my reply post to tigermission you will notice I am giving him benefit of the doubt. However I am not going to believe it because Dennis Lindsey said it. Dennis is not going to step on the court and does not know Tmac's physical and mental health. Only Tmac knows that and only he can prove it. Maybe. Maybe not. I cant base Tmac's performance based on what IFs. I can only base it on what has been so far. And since you asked for a hypothetical answer, I would say no. Certainly not 3 championships. Again, not because of talent, but I think against Spur's defense, which Lakers usually faced in payoffs, Tmac would not be as mentally tough as Kobe. HOWEVER, if Phil Jackson would be coaching him, he might have made him mentally tough so its very possible taking PJ into consideration. Since its hypothetical, it doesn't prove anything. Does not mean I cant tell who is mentally tougher, has better work ethic, approaches each game as a serious business, and has a killer attitude. That is what the discussion was about. He is one of the most mentally toughest players to play the game. Bill Russell comes to mind.... Your opinion and I dont have a problem with that. Similarly based on what I have seen, my opinion is that Tmac is mentally weak and this is where he loses out on when compared to Kobe. Why not? Is that some sort of unwritten law of Bball?? I should not say "none". That was exagerration on my point when I said "heartless" My point was talent wise Tmac can do just as much damage in a game as Kobe can. What sets them apart is the mental part. If I recall correctly the problem was selfishness on part of Kobe. It didnt have anything to do about Kobe being mentally weak. We werent discussing selfishness. He is a great coach because he has taken superstars on his teams to next level. I find it interesting that before he joined the two teams, Jordan/Pippen/Kobe/Shaq were ringless. Alll of a sudden when he joined them, they ended up winning 9 rings??? $hit like that can happen once but 9 times?? PJ is one guy who could have turned mentally tuned Tmac. I don't know if they would have won a championship together but Tmac and Yao would have definitely taken their game to the next level mentally. However, safe guess based on his record is to say, they would have definitely bagged couple of rings.. To me he has proven that he is extremely talented and extremely clutch when it comes to last minutes of game. But the desire and hunger to win that translates into heart is definitely lacking. I wouldn't even begin comparing him to AI when it comes to heart. AI is a selfish punk who chucks up a shot every time he gets a chance, and is no where as talented as Tmac. But his heart is unquestionable. This dude throws himself around just to get a win, even if it is in a selfish manner. If Tmac had Iverson's heart, he would be the most feared player in the game. KG is another heartless gimp. When it comes to controlling the game and clutch moments, he is afraid to take a shot and defers to the scrubs on his team. He was lucky to have Sam Cassell, an ugly mofo with a sweet heart, on his team to ride him to WCF.
Alexcapone, Funny that this should be posted in chron today. Especially read about JVG shrugging it off. As I said, it's about heart. http://blogs.chron.com/franblinebury/2006/12/no_time_for_shrinking_violet.html No time for shrinking violet Here's what you won't see from Tracy McGrady this season: • 52 points. • 19-for-26 FGs. • 30 points in the third quarter on 9-for-9 from the field, 1-for-10 from the line. • 2 ferocious dunks into the teeth of the entire Jazz team. • Lockdown defense on Andrei Kirilenko. That was Kobe Bryant on Thursday night in the Lakers' 132-102 win over Utah. Kobe is coming back from off-season knee surgery. T-Mac is recovering from last season's back problems. Kobe is attacking, reasserting himself as the premier offensive player in the game. T-Mac is shrinking, claiming he's remaking himself into a playmaker. Kobe is learning to let his running buddies be a part of the team, getting them involved, not always dominating the ball. But he knows when -- and knows how -- to still drop the hammer. T-Mac is handing off the burden to Yao Ming and to a collection of hot-and-cold shooters who will live and die at the 3-point line. He will not -- or cannot -- be who he once was. It is not about shooting percentages. T-Mac has never been a sharpshooter. He is a volume shooter, a streak shooter, who has never connected at better than .457 in his career and not better than .431 with the Rockets. But he has always possessed that crackling spark to go off at any time. Not now. He played listlessly, almost bored, in the last home game against Minnesota. He displayed no energy. He mostly tossed up long heaves in Phoenix. "That's just Mac," said Jeff Van Gundy with a shrug. That's just the problem. Kobe is Kobe. T-Mac is T-Mac. And the gap between them has never been wider.
Last night's game reminded us that Kobe is still one of the top 5 players in the game. Yes, after one single game. He has what Lebron needs --a game face. You don't see Kobe chewing his fingernails during crunch time. He has what TMac lost --that "If you test me, I can singehandedly destroy your whole team tonight" swagger He has what DWade lacks --a consistent jumper. Think Wade can hit 5 outside jumpers in a row, much less 9 like Kobe did last night?
I agree. He has the sheer tenacity and toughness of Wade. He has the swagger that T-Mac used to have, that teams used to recognize and expect before the game even began. And he has the 'maturity' in his game that Lebron still lacks. He's the best swingman in the game, no question about it. I am sure McGrady is taking note of what Kobe did against Utah, and I wouldn't be surprised if that alone lit a fire in him...
