I'm with you...it's unfair to assume he raped her without a trial. With OJ, there was a trial...evidence was presented...we watched it all. And I can disagree with a jury as to their decision. But in this case, we never saw the evidence presented and countered. I don't need all that to dislike Kobe, though. I just dislike him because I'm an American.
You're welcome. To me, this is one of the great mysteries -- far too little research has gone into this.
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There were no references made to "all the" Americans. There are exceptions to every rule and this is no different. I made this thread looking for some perspective and asking people to take off the blinders and look at things objectively for a while. This was obviously too much to ask for many of the posters. And perhaps it is a universal message as well --- people will find ways to vilify those more successful and unrelateable than them as a defense mechanism. They will probe, they will pick at and they will scrutinize until they can find a way to justify this. I remember several posters in the NBA Dish were outraged at the audacity LeBron had to tattoo "The Chosen One" on his back. But if you look at what he's accomplished at his age and the way he carries himself on and off the court, he has every right to do so. Whereas Kobe doesn't carry himself with the same manner on the court or have such narcissistic tattoos, but has two dedicated to his wife and daughters and works very hard to stay close to his children. The moral of this thread is that people are different - who are we to judge strangers we can't relate to?
Agreed... especially when everyone knows that having a robot for a nanny is the number 2 factor leading to getting picked on at school by bullies.
But wouldn't your logic suggest that "people" would hate all elite athletes? Forget Kobe, Roger Mason has an athletic talent and success level unreachable by the vast majority of the earth's population. At one time in my life I got torched by a Div 1 guy who was only average on the college level (maybe good, but never NBA material) so I could not even fathom how much better George Mason is than I am. Of course as has already been pointed out, you further forget that Kobe's jersey, shoes, etc are big sellers and he makes huge amounts of money on endorsements. That would not happen if people didn't overwhelmingly "like" him or respect his ability.
Now that is just plain stupid. Yao Ming makes several several times the money I make and he is several several several times the basketplayer that I could ever be yet I don't go around vilifying him or most pro-athletes either. For that matter I don't go out of my way to villify Kobe Bryant. You on the other hand seem to be so caught up in hero worship over Kobe Bryant that you are enganging in psycho babble about pretty much everyone else. No one is questioning Bryant's basketball skill and I haven't seen anyone even say he doesn't deserve the money or success he has. THis isn't a matter of a defense mechanism but a matter that Kobe Bryant on court isn't very likeable.
...aren't you judging millions of Americans who are strangers to you? How can you relate to me, when my life experience is different than yours? Everyone is different, so everyone values different things. Since everyone places a different internal value on an occupation, money, celebrity status, each person will have his own feelings toward another. Your assumption is that everyone places a high value on money and celebrity status, so they construct a "defense mechanism" to make themselves feel better. Your assumption about others is inaccurate.
No, it doesn't, and I've explained this several times in the thread. It's about being successful relative to your line of work or passion, so Roger Mason doesn't qualify. And then it's about whether people in other industries can identify with the work and dedication that goes into this. Just read my posts objectively, or read what jackflag has said: Add to that the on court atmosphere in the playoffs and I really don't have an issue with the small scuffles that go on between Kobe and Shane. To use a metaphor, it's not politically correct for America (Kobe) to bully Afghanistan (Shane), but during times of chaos and WAR the enemy is the enemy. I am talking about the tendencies of Americans as a mass, which you can make from historical observations and empirical evidence. Each part of the world has its pros and cons, I'm not saying one place is all good and America is all bad. And living in Houston, having traveled across America and being the curious type, I DO find most Americans don't attempt to care about things that go on outside of America and often pride themselves on ignorance. But ignorance is bliss, and Americans have created out a very good quality of life for themselves, so it's not necessarily wrong.
Explain how Roger Mason has not been successful in his line of work as a basketball player. Not only has he made it to the highest level possible - the NBA - but he is a good NBA player. Are you saying you have to be an MVP to be a success? Even if I were to grant you that, let's examine MVP history: 2008-09 LeBron James Cleveland 2007-08 Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers 2006-07 Dirk Nowitzki Dallas 2005-06 Steve Nash Phoenix 2004-05 Steve Nash Phoenix 2003-04 Kevin Garnett Minnesota 2002-03 Tim Duncan San Antonio 2001-02 Tim Duncan San Antonio 2000-01 Allen Iverson Philadelphia 1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal Los Angeles Lakers 1998-99 Karl Malone Utah 1997-98 Michael Jordan Chicago 1996-97 Karl Malone Utah 1995-96 Michael Jordan Chicago 1994-95 David Robinson San Antonio 1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston 1992-93 Charles Barkley Phoenix 1991-92 Michael Jordan Chicago 1990-91 Michael Jordan Chicago 1989-90 Magic Johnson Los Angeles Lakers 1988-89 Magic Johnson Los Angeles Lakers 1987-88 Michael Jordan Chicago 1986-87 Magic Johnson Los Angeles Lakers 1985-86 Larry Bird Boston 1984-85 Larry Bird Boston 1983-84 Larry Bird Boston 1982-83 Moses Malone Philadelphia 1981-82 Moses Malone Houston 1980-81 Julius Erving Philadelphia Are you suggesting that "people" hate all of them because they cannot relate? Why don't you start a thread on all of them, then? I bet on this bbs you would find that most dislike Kobe and Malone, maybe Dirk. Shaq and Iverson would probably be 50-50. I would guess that the rest would be majority positive. Further - as I already said, merchandising and endorsements suggest that Kobe and most other top players are the most popular players in the NBA - not the "most relatable" guys. It is further humorous that you try to tie in work ethic with relatability. So non players can't understand how much work Kobe puts into his career and, thus, don't like him (and this is somehow American)? Kobe is famous for his Jordan-like work ethic. LeBron has been given loads of praise for raising his game because of being around Kobe and his work ethic. "Regular people" love work ethic. If anything, guys like Derrick Coleman are reviled and mocked far more because they clearly don't care or are lazy. I would further like to point out that I only originally questioned the logic behind your argument and never wrote one word about my like or dislike for Kobe. I don't recall ever having an exchange (positive or negative) with you previously, either. As such, calling my objectivity into question after one post was rather silly.
Dude. You start a Kobe topic in a Rockets Forum....... Why bring it to this level of thought? You are taking a topic.....bad at that.....and turning into a thesis on the American public. Either your a genius or you need to start taking your meds again. My choice is #2. By the way..... Size does not equate to behavior.Kobe gets hot and acts like he is the first player in this league to score like he does. LeBron gets hot and makes his team better by WINNING GAMES! Sorry brother, but LeBron might be as big as a truck......but if you ask anyone which player makes his supporting cast better......and has more class? Your poop out of luck. Never seen Artest, Reggie Miller, Melvin Ely, Chris Childs, Shawn Marion, Jamal Crawford and more try to fight LeBron when he pee'd on them.
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this point. Most Americans are blissfully ignorant of world affairs. One they don't really care and two it doesn't really affect them. I think it has to do more so about being insulated on a continent with only two neighbors close by as opposed to folks in Europe who are forced to mingle with everyone. But I wouldn't say people on this forum or on the internet are representative of the general American public. I would say folks here are generally much more attune of what is happening around them, especially the guys in the D&D who could quite possibly work in public policy somewhere if they wanted. Its the general nature of the internet and forums especially. People come here to get a nice cross section of views. So I wouldn't blame these guys as the average American idiot, but rather the folks standing in the checkout line at the grocery store reading Star Magazine. I travel overseas for more than half the year nowadays and you can see the difference in talking to people. Outside the USA, they are always asking about American affairs and politics and so forth. Rarely do I ever hear a question or comment about the workings of foreign government, sport or culture from my co-workers, friends or strangers here in the States.
