Most everyone agrees that a deadly perimeter threat is one of the best complements to Yao. I (and others) have talked before about Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Peja (not gonna happen), etc. I was thinking along those lines when Alan Houston popped into my head. It is no secret that I have a keen interest in seeing Francis more on. Given that, I came up with a few trade ideas. Trade #1 Steve for Alan straight up, possibly with a draft pick (2nd round) headed Houston's way. Houston's bloated contract can be matched by Steve's bloated contract + some of the trade exception. An alternative is to tack on one of our bench warmers instead of receiving a draft pick. Trade #2 Steve plus Taylor for Houston plus Kurt Thomas. In this one we get rid of a big albatross of a contract in Taylor and get a starting quality Power Forward. Thomas may be a little undersized in the west, but his style of play is about a perfect complement to Yao from the PF position. Alternatively, we could bring back big fella Othella in place of Thomas and save a little coin/cap space, though we would still be over the cap in either scenario. Trade #3 Steve plus Taylor plus Cato for Houston plus Tim Thomas. This one is kinda out there, but bear with me. Tim Thomas gives us a quick four who can shoot the three and slash to the basket. This is going to leave us a little small in the paint, but no team has two great post players, so we should be able to cover with just Yao, and Thomas can go out and guard the Swifts and Gasols of the world that Cato was too slow for. Basically, Tim Thomas is close offensively to what we were expecting Eddie Griffin to be. After any of the three trades, we play Mobley, Jackson, and Houston at the guards and small forward position, with Jackson and Mobley sharing ball handling duties. This gives us pretty much the pest perimeter shooting team in the league. The Knicks get the highlight reel backcourt of Marbury (6'2") and Francis (6'3") (who might even physically bring to mind Thomas (6'1") and Dumars (6'3") to one NY GM). Option #2 is my favorite because we would still have the trade exception and some decent parts to move (Cato) and I think Kurt Thomas would fit in really well. Jackson/Jackson Mobley/Piatkowski Houston/Nachbar Thomas/Weatherspoon Yao/Cato That is a team that can do significantly better than last years team, IMO, and Thomas and/or Cato could be potentially coupled with the TE plus possibly draft picks to improve the power forward spot even further, or to get another PG.
i woudn't do any of these trades. i do not want Houston in a houston jersey, and especially not if it costs us Francis.
Wow, a zero-tolerance Friday. While I also disagree with the overall trades proposed, I DO like the idea of an Allan Houstonesque-type player--to be completely honest, if Houston wasn't constantly getting himself hurt this past season it would be much MORE appealing to me, but even a healthy Allan Houston is awfully tough to trade Steve Francis for. As far as the ideas of bringing in Kurt Thomas and Othella Harrington, I'm all for it if we can dump Taylor's contract. But again, an injury-prone Houston is too much for me to swallow. The team's success would hinge GREATLY on HIS success, and if he fell to injury again there is no way in hell that team could make the playoffs in the West. Good thoughts, though--at least it's not McGrady stuff.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NY already trade for Starbury. I also don't look at the NY lineup and realy want to trade with them at all. (Although if Houston were a FA and we didn't have to pay his insane contract, I wouln't mind picking him up)
Why don't we just ship Francis to the Clippers for another trade exception? With another trade excpeiton we could all discuss what to do with the trade exception for at least another year since the one we got for Rice will soon expire. I don't want to see what this board will be like without the trade exception. Then when we come up with stupid trades it would land us Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan for SF + the trade Excepition.
I have to admit it would be fun to have a guy named Houston playing for Houston -- at least the Rockets would finally have to put "Houston" on the jersey. But, couldn't we just pick up undrafted John Houston or something? Do we really have to take cap-killer Allan Houston?
While I will fight for every person's right to post whatever they want, those trades are just plain stupid! Houston is just about over the hill and has a bloated salary. He is not worth it at all. Thomas is a good player but I would not trade Steve for him. If you we don't get a superstar in return for Steve then I would just as soon keep him and try to add to the roster more role players that compliment Yao and Steve.
StupidMoniker's one of my favorite posters and a damn good person in real life. However, he'd be happy if we traded Steve Francis for a new wardrobe for Calvin. Wait a minute, we'd all probably do that. OK, he'd trade Francis for a Karl Malone jersey and some beef jerky.
It makes sense then.......stupidMoniker is definitely underestimating Steve's value. Come on, how old is Houston again? And how much does he make?
I like Houston's shot as well. I think it's beautiful. BUT, he's past his prime. And besides, his bloated contract is WAY fatter than Steve's. Does Houston even play defense? Trading for him would give me scarey flashbacks of Glen Rice.
Houston is 33 and his game is not particularly dependent upon athleticism. He has also missed more than 6 games in exactly 1 season. Kurt Thomas is in his prime and Tim Thomas is younger than Steve, so he is hardly past his prime. I think all of you are OVERestimating Steve's worth. We are not going to get McGrady straight up for Steve, because McGrady is better. I have my doubts that we can get Elton Brand as well. I would certainly prefer either of them, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, or Paul Pierce. I don't think we will get any of them. I have seen reasonable people *cough*heypartner*cough* suggest that we trade Steve for the #4 and #34 pick, plus Charlotte takes Taylor in the expansion draft. I think Houston and Thomas is less risky than hoping for Shaun Livingstone to be there at 4 and to not be a bust. Toast, Yes, Allan Houston plays just as good of defense as Steve Francis, at a less important defensive position, and has played for Van Gundy before. This is hardly a Glen Rice situation. I would say it is much more like the Barkley trade, which I happened to like and many others happened to hate. Finally, I don't know why you are all concerned with how much Houston makes. We are not under the cap, and we are never going to be under the cap, at least not before Houston retires. Cap space is not an issue, and the 5 million more that we have to pay Houston is not going to keep Les from getting any players, especially when you get most of it right back with the difference between the Thomas and Taylor contracts. Anyway, this wouldn't be my ideal trade either, but I would give it a lot more consideration as some of our other options are eliminated than you all apparently would, and I would certainly rather do it than nothing.
You need at least two sides to every trade. Why would NY want SF. Even if you want Houston and Thomas from NY you would have to involve a third team to get it done.
i have to admit h2o has passed thru my mind but i knew other people wouldnt be too excited about him cuz of his salary. however he is a great leader, and an awesome shooter...i never realized he was like 33, tho....but i do hope houston gets some type of great spot up shooter.
well the weakness in this trade... and the first thing i thought of was: would the knicks want steve francis and stephon marbury in the same backcourt? there's no way they can co-exist. the knicks were exposed for their lack of athleticism. the only way this works is Houston comes to Houston, and Francis goes to another team to fetch an athletic player for NY.
So Steve Francis isn't athletic? I know him and Starbury got into a little tiff, but everyone talks about how Steve is really a 2 guard (except me, JVG, and a few others) so I think their games could mesh okay, or at least I think others could think that. Like I said before, it could be very similar to the Bad Boys backcourt of IT and JD (except Steve obviously is no Joe Dumars, especially on D). Generally you can tell a trade is reasonbaly fair if different people think both sides are getting ripped off.
hey don't get me wrong i don't dislike the trades in principle. but i think the knicks know what they need. they were exposed in the playoffs for having no athletic perimeter defenders or post defenders. hence no answer for R Jefferson or K-Mart. getting steve solves nothing. plus with a penetrate and kick out guard like Marbury, they need spot up shooters, and it wouldn't make sense to give away their best one unless they got a big, athletic defender back.
