francis won just as many games in houston as mcgrady did in orlando, in the east where sub .500 teams made the playoffs and he never got out the first round. is he not a max contract player. and I love how people like to use the fact that he went to the lotto ignoring the fact that he had three seasons of above .500. but yeah they sucked. tell me how many games some of those teams were supposed to win.
I'm not gonna defend francis's decline since he left here, even though he had an all star season the first year. the bottom line is when he was here and got the contract he was arguably a top 15 player in the league. and that includes stats and the team's record. the team wasn't that bad it just was mediocre.
No reason to reopen, rehash the francis debate...but.... ....it also means that he's not really a liability comparatively speaking. There's been a lot of adjusted stat measurements on 82games.com of Francis defensive abilities in Houston and Orlando and he usually scores at least average or slightly above average in most categories adn towards the upper end when measured agaisnt his counterparts. His reputation as a sieve was greatly exaggerated. Hell, look at Steve Nash. As Bill Simmons, said, he couldn't guard Sue Bird with two blown out ACL's but he's still the 2-time MVP, so take it with a grain of salt.
There is no doubt that this team has enough talent to succeed, but there has just been this big old attitude problem with the entire franchise for such a long time. To me, this franchise needs a complete overhaul starting with Zeke. As far as the roster: If they plan on having a Marbury/Francis backcourt, they better prepare themselves for a long season. These guys are basically the same player in the fact that they both NEED the ball to produce, they aren't great shooters and really dribble too much to have a good team game, especially when playing together. Crawford and Q are kind of in the same boat, both are very similar players, both have questionable shot selection. Curry and James are just big bodies that were completely overpaid for. David Lee is decent and cheap. But Frye is the highlight of that roster IMO, I really liked how he played last season through all that crap.
Howard is (or certainly was, probably still is) tight with Curry. Zeke needs to line them up together to value out his overpaid 5. Crawford or Q ok to come back or Rose + Lee or or or ...
First this will be my last post in this thread regarding Francis. This is supposed to be a thread about how bad the Knicks will suck next season not why Francis is completely useless to teams that wish to contend for a title. There were 2 things that seperated Francis and McGrady 1. McGrady was surrounded with CBA level talent and a terrible coaching staff and still got them to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Francis while in a somewhat similar position(although he did have a better coaching staff) didn't make the playoffs until JVG came in and forced him to play his way. 2. Since you seem to like stats McGrady put up damn near Hall of Fame numbers while in Orlando( T-Mac's Stats ) Francis on the other hand didn't. Also once again Francis always plays down to his compettition. ALWAYS. So honestly even if he did play in the Eastern Conference he still probably would've been in the lottery year after year. Finally you ask how many games were some those teams supposed to win? Well, how about enough games to get in to the playoffs.
I can find hall of famers whose stats match with francis's career stats, no his are not as good as mcgrady's. francis won 45 games with rudy and no Yao, the same amount that got him into the playoffs with jvg.
i'm sorry i dissapointed you SOOO much...to the point of posting the rolleyes. my main point was that the knicks have a lot of talent on thier team. so why cant they win? because they're immature, and some have low BBall IQ's. so why not just let them play? let them win off thier own talent. you won't win much in the nba like that unless u have a steve nash on your team, but in the east if they win 35 games they are in the playoff hunt. that would be a huge improvement, would it not? those players on their roster, under rudy T and his 5 plays could make the playoffs. they need simple, easy to grasp stuff.
Unless Zeke creates an "Us against the world" mentality on the Knicks that inspires the team to play beyond their expected capabilities, there is no chance he will succeed. Add in the fact his owner basically tossed him in hot grease by saying he's gone if he doesn't do well. Like I said in another thread, Zeke's 5-10% chance of success pretty much went to zero with that comment. After their first or second 5 game losing streak, the press will howl and the players will stop listening. I don't feel a bit sorry for Isiah. I loved him at IU and will never forget that amazing NCAA championship run. But the way he underperformed with my Pacers, the way he destroyed the CBA and with what he's done to the Knicks roster and payroll, he deserves what he's got: A sorry team he put together and a jerk of an owner. Starbury may perform well because he's supposed to be tight with Isiah, but it won't matter.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. I think the Knicks are LOADED with talent. Depth at just about every position. Most improved team next year. Isiah Thomas up for coach of the year honors, like it or not.
I think the backcourt will have its problems but there is a lot of talent on that team. and i watched a summer league game, the draft pick is a nice pick that late, however he probably won't play much and it was just one summer league game. brandon roy also looked good, sorry.
Is it just me, or does it seem like being separated from Cuttino Mobley has really hurt Francis' performance?
well no one ever argued he wasn't a head case. actually, its just coaching style, rudy let him do what he wanted, the coach who was there the first year in orlando also. brian hill and jvg weren't having that.
That's why it will be tough for Steve to be a part of a championship team. Coaches that win championships demand that players follow the plan, first and foremost. One can argue that Kobe was an exception but he's so much better than SF (and he had Shaq). If only Steve could decide in his mind that sacrificing his personal agenda on the court for the good of the team was the right thing to do. Of course, Starbury has this problem times 10.
They do have a lot of talent, Larry Brown f**ked up that team. I thought Frye had it right when he was asked about how LB coached the Knicks last year, he told the reporter "What if your boss had a different plan when you came to work every day. It wouldn't work would it". I wish we could pry some of that talent away from the Knicks. Jackie Butler and Qyntel Woods are guys we could afford and could help us but I would love to have Crawford, Frye or Lee as well.
yeah that team has nothing but talent + francis + marbury - chemistry = knicks hope isiaha leads this team back in the right direction
