Can you post the article ? Being on the athletic , its obviously gonna be behind a paywall. From what you are telling me , they are discussing the "stretch provision" which isn't a "buy out" at all , its waiving Wall and he gets 100% of his $$$ but the cap hit is spread over 2x+1 seasons. So in this case , Wall is owed $91.67m over two seasons so the stretch in his case is 5 years (2x2+1) with a cap hit of $18.334m in each if the next five years. Yes , that would absolutely hinder the team's ability to add players , free agent or otherwise. It's just kicking the can down the road. For competitive reasons , you'd be much better off riding out the 2 remaining years of Wall's contract than stretching him. Essentially you are paying him In Full just to go away ..... and you suffer a cap reduction of $18.334m for each of the next 5 seasons. You might do this with a smaller contract .... but not one where the yearly cap hit is better than 16% of the salary cap. Maybe some small to mid market team who's content going .500 does this , but not one that's serious about competing at any time during this 5 year payout.
Man I think you have to have both those situations thought out long before the day of reckoning arrives - If you aren't going to pay them those big contracts , you have to trade them before they expire and get some return. Essentially we have a year and a half to evaluate both those guys - trade deadline 22/23 will be interesting for sure as Wall , EG , Wood , Porter & Tate are set to be FA.
Yea I agree, but I was responding to some people saying a simplistic stop overpaying middle guys etc. Contracts are going up, mid level players are getting in the teens to play. KPJ and woods are flashes of all stars and if htey build on that next year they will come in expecting 20 million plus. That gives us the option to pay up for the talent, To sign and trade them for matching salaries, or trade them but we'd have to match talent for as cheap as they are as they are both in amazing contracts. The jury is still out, we were terrible this year. Next year with some stability we'll see how they adjust in an offseason and that should be much more telling on if they will have longevity in this manner. If so, if not them then who? Are we going to keep punting for rookie contracts and young exciting talent and then letting it alone during pay day. I worry abotu that with tilman. Will his financial situation or mentality get better? We still have a rookie gm and a rookie coach, he hasn't spent at one single level and he was hit the hardest in the pandemic. Tate/KMJ have 3 years left. Wall and Eg may be gone that summer as expirings maybe I'm being hopeful, but who knows what well do. A lot will be about if we get our pick this summmer and who we get next summer. but many of the writers are talkign about that tilman will try to shorten the rebuild and use assets to get a star this summer. No 1A star is going to come here in our current state so I hope he doesn't go the Macolm Brogdon route and make us the pacers.
Martin gets his in the flow of the offense , not thru usage .... He might get 20 one night and 5 the next because he's not the first , second or even third option .... I don't see that changing.
I agree with some need for vets. 1) Wall ($44M) 10 years next season 2) Eric Gordon ($18M) 13 seasons next year 3) Wood ($13M) 5 seasons next year 4) Porter ($1.8M) 2 seasons 5) Tate ($1.5M) 1 season, but overseas experience 6) Kenyon Martin Jr ($1.5M) 1 season ?(7) Olynyk (??? need to re-sign) 8 seasons So not having Augustin ($7M) 12 years is going to make or break us? I can turn that $7M and go after free agent talent.......they will be, well.......vets! We have no centers. I consider Wood and Olynyk as "Small-Ball" centers. Could we go after John Collns (if Olynyk is asking for too much......can we roll the Olynyk money into JC for 1-yr deal?) Daniel Theis Ibaka (P. Option) Rachaun Holmes Jarrett Allen (R) Others? Most are not true centers, but can help.....we have no muscle in the front court. That's more important to me than a their string PG that has a 119 DRtg with Houston. Haslem is $2.56M. The difference between Haslem and Augustin contract could bring us Nerlens Noel priced free agent. Or split the amount and bring in two free agents. __________________________ Apache: we have other vets and John Lucas/Horacek as coaches to help educate/instruct. You: But we need point guard vets Apache: Wall, Eric Gordon You: but we need facilitators Apache: Wall, Eric Gordon, Porter, ?Cade?, Wood, ?Olynyk?, Tate You: but we need a defensive point guard Apache: Augustin doesn't give you that. In fact, the good that Augustin brings to the offense is negated by his piss-poor defense. He is 5'11" and turning 34 next year.
I'd wager John collins is going to get more money than Olynk. IF he wants to be 'the man' or have more opportunity, I can see him giving us a try, but hes been solid this year and the hawks are winning, they'd be stupid not to playing. I'd be estatic to get him, I don't see it reasonable given how much money we have. We have Olynks bird rights, but the question is given our direction does he want to win, will he take the biggest pay day, or by some small glimmer of a hope is he loving how silas is giving him showcase and just want to play ball with us. Daniel Thies is a reasonable option. Ibaka chose the clippers and its showing he wants to play meaningful playoff teams, we probably aren't the first candidate to be fielding vets looking for winning teams, probably not the first 20 candidates. Holmes is a possiblity, hes very talented, depends on the price and maybe he will want to be showcased. Jarret Allen would 've been great...in fact we had him and chose a late milwaulkee first round pick when we did have him. HE should command a high price as well. When given 30 plus minutes, hes shown to be deadly. He also has shown hints of shooting that corner 3. Hes a texan, maybe he would take a discount for us? but I doubt him. I like him, but dobt it. I agree augustin is replaceable, I didn't mean him particularly. WAll and EG are vets, but they aren't known to b the leadership culture type of vets that would help young players develop. WAll is still shooting to get back into his groove and wants to be the man. I liked his spirit, but not sure he fits the veteran influence mentality. EG is also known to be quiet, trying to find his own groove. Now Avery bradley came in, first thing he said his job is to help KPJ. Thats the type of vet I am tlaking about, like you said you can find those at the minimum, so I think we should get some options. Likewise with staff, Fo. It might be nice to right this ship and get some experience to mix with our young new talent
There should be reverse Bird Rights that allow you to go over the cap to get rid of a player. Wall Rights
Bro that's not how the salary cap works. You can't just take DJs 7M and Olynyk’s however much and sign players for an equal amount. We're 30M over the cap. You have to get rid of all of that first before you can start just signing dudes to deals straight up.
Jefferies ($1.7M team option) House ($3.9M) DJ Wilson ($6.4M qualifying offer) Avery Bradley ($5.9M team option) Augustin ($7.0M) _________________________ ..........that's $24.9M that can be traded for nothing to different teams or renounce rights in the off-season Approximately $99.7M scheduled for next season (without Cam Oliver money......if any) ........................--24.9M ........................__________ ........................ $74.8M (ball park figure if the Rockets can swing some trades for foreign rights/Picks) Avery Bradley is a question mark. He bragged that nobody scored a FG while being guarded by him in 1st or 2nd game with Houston. But Codman hinted that he did not like the trade to Houston. Much like Aaron Gordon, what vet in their 30's wants to spend their final years on a rebuilding team. Answer: a loser Don't get me wrong, I've been here since 2017.......I've been asking for Augustin and Bradley in 2017-2019. But now I bet them in their golden years.
DJ is a qualifying offer, we won't be able to trade im unless its a sign or trade. He wouldn't even get 6.4 in the open market anyways. AVery/House and Augsutin we could, they have some vet values and not bad contracts, what they'll get in rurn I'm not sure. IF tilman is willing to somehow spend now when he wasn't when we were contending wouldn't make much sense, lets see. And as you mentioned, which vet wants to come play for our team next year? Maybe only someone who wants a lot o touches and be more showcased. not exactly great pickings to add to Wall and EG. Most vets will ask for a buy out if its reasonable from us.
Shout out to the Viper Crew - the guys who were tuning in at 11AM to catch the rise of KPJ and avoid the underhanded compliments and petty mentality of a casual with passive aggressive "im not hating, just posting an opinion" takes. @fchowd0311 @D-rock @rockets13champs @coachbadlee @peleincubus @J.R. @BossHogg713 @treyk3 (If I missed ya chime in!! Too many half and halfers tip toeing around here - get on or get off!!!)
I was really just thinking out loud based off the question you asked .... what do you do when it comes time to pay them. You have to have made that decision prior to that offseason , if you aren't going to pay them you have to have traded them already .... or they are gone for nothing. Letting guys go for nothing is not a good way to build a franchise , assets are limited. The bold - Keep punting for rookie contracts - well , that depends upon the players .... how they grow and improve (or not). I'd have to say cycling thru a bunch of young players on cheap contracts is a much better model than overpaying for talent just to stay mediocre which we see a lot of the mid market teams doing - Just making the playoffs makes them happy. Good Lord I hope not. I think that's almost the worst case scenario considering they already owe OKC a horde of picks and swaps then there's John Wall's contract ..... Ugh , just be patient and let the next two drafts play out , next years draft is going to have high school players again .... essentially double the talent. If they play this right , the deck is stacked in their favor for a return to relevance in 23 and do so with a ton of assets to make what can be a really god roster better. Dumping Wall and trying to accelerate the process is going to leave them mediocre.
https://theathletic.com/2573470/202...-rocket-but-does-he-have-a-future-in-houston/ Hollinger and Iko discuss how the Rockets might be incentivized to offer John Wall a buyout this summer because ultimately, his level of play wasn't that bad. He's probably untradeable at a $45M number, but if the Rockets waived him, they speculate that he might be able to secure a 2/$20M free agent deal; a sum that would then be deducted from the price that the Rockets would owe on the cap and in salary. They're technically wrong, as you're only allowed to deduct half the difference of the new contract and the one-year veteran minimum (~$1.4M expected in 2022). So the Rockets would save about $4.3M per year with a straight waiving of Wall if he signed the hypothetical 2/$20. Contracts automatically get stretched out when it comes to the payment of the actual salary obligations, so Wall would get paid out the remaining contract over the course of 5 years. Using a 7% Discount rate, I have the Rockets saving an NPV of ~$8.1M on a buyout, this would be on top of whatever they save in set-off or buyout negotiations. While teams have the option to also stretch the salary cap hit in the same way, the league would actually forbid the Rockets from doing so, because you cannot dedicate more than 15% of the salary cap to players that have been stretch waived. So fortunately, the Rockets are protected against such future mismanagement due to their past horrendous moves; although I guess this makes it far more likely that they will be using their horde of picks to dump the contract instead, and truly ensure that they end up getting nothing from trading away Harden.
bigger question: do we have an owner who has the money and patience for front office/coaching staff who can maximize player devt?
I really like our supporting cast of KMJ, Tate, Nwaba and Olynyk. They are solid, unselfish and play with intensity every night. I really hope we get lucky with the draft pick and land a star in making. Wood/KPJ combo just does not seem to be the key to success in my opinion.
Maybe the thing that impresses me most about KJ is how he always plays within the team game, never chucks, just capitalizes when its there and doesn't force anything if it isn't. a rare trait in such a young player
And what free agent that is good enough to make us a real contender against the likes of the lakers is going to come to Houston?
I think that's great that they can't stretch that contract .... trying to get out of it early by throwing assets or long term cap space is the worst thing that can happen. It'll take assets away from the rebuild and cap space when they actually need it in the three years beyond its natural expiration date. They have more time than they do assets. Ride it out & reap the rewards at the end of it. I agree he's probably untradeable next year at $44.3m but at the next deadline (when he's expiring) , he might actually be an asset to a team looking to get under the cap. I can't see a contender matching his salary in either year - $35.448 next and $37.89 in the final year. That's a whole lot of outgoing salary .... The expiration of that contract fits the timeline of when they should be looking to add a quality player via trade or FA and that contract could facilitate that , even if he finishes that year with the Rockets and expires .... that is better than throwing away picks or longer term cap space to dump the contract early.
