1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

KMJ the real hidden gem. Not KPJ.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Slabhurta3, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,377
    Likes Received:
    4,250
    Kevin Porter Jr is a All Star Talent.

    KJ Martin Jr. reminds me of Rookie Robert Horry. A Shot Blocker, Dunker, 3 Point Shot in Progress, Dribbling in Progress

    KJ Martin Jr and Kevin Porter Jr. still have a chance to grow in height hopefully.
     
    dragonwill, Bo6, chadyang and 2 others like this.
  2. jch1911

    jch1911 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Kenyon Martin Jr.’s last 3 games:
    27 PTS - 10 REB - 2 AST
    26 PTS - 7 REB - 7 AST
    23 PTS - 10 REB - 6 AST

    Granted most of the roster was sitting, but somebody had to step up... and he did
     
    charlieaustin, RudyTBag, Bo6 and 3 others like this.
  3. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    6,889
    Likes Received:
    7,440
    and the irrational KPJ hate continues....
     
  4. TimDuncanDonaut

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    4,550
    Likes Received:
    7,388
    head 2 head matchup so far.

    [​IMG]

    They play different positions. KMJ for a while was coming off the bench as a sixth man. KMJ slightly better VORP. less usage, more efficient at shooting, better O-rating and D-rating. To be fair, KPJ's job is a bit different, setting up team's offense and such. I'll still take KPJ over Wall. In the shooting categories, KPJ has things to work on this summer.

    In category of TS Add (number of extra points added by true shot attempts above league average). KPJ is negative, though not as bad as say Wall (-113) or Westbrook (-173). For perspective added in Chris Paul (37) and KMJ is 14.2

    [​IMG]

    My outlook has always been wait and see, see how they grow, be optimistic but no need to prematurely proclaim either as the next thing. Unless Kiltron's psychic, none of us can predict the future. As far as Clutch fans reactions, yes I think KMJ is slightly under-rated on this board.
     
    #44 TimDuncanDonaut, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    Verbal Christ, Zen Tabak and burlesk like this.
  5. sydmill

    sydmill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    775
    Specifically, how and on who?
     
  6. burlesk

    burlesk Tries hard
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    495
    As someone who has worked in mental health his whole long-ass life, I gotta say, mental health is not any kind of ****ing joke, when we're talking about "babying" anyone... People get stuck, and for very good reasons, at very young ages (in parts of themselves), very often... Which is another reason we need to start paying attention to very young children in much more serious ways, and to be learning better ways to help them and their families. Peace. Take care of your asses. We were all born with immense potential and could all use a little "babying" at times, no matter how tough we think we are. Isn't that half of what we look for in a partner?

    You want KPJ's whole life? Maybe yours was worse in ways. Tate's may have been, again in some ways. Either way, it's not up to any of us to decide. Resilience is still pretty mysterious, though we're learning about it. We're not really sure what makes some people more able to respond positively to their adversities, but rest assured, there are great reasons for this, as we're discovering. **** simply is what it is, no point at all in placing value judgments on any of it, no matter what shaming you've received in your life or what not. Try not to spread the **** you had dumped on you. Vent, OK, but recognize that's what you're doing. No one benefits from the judging of others.

    That's me venting. Something got me started... Burlesk out.
     
    #46 burlesk, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  7. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    5,667

    Where ? I don't see any. Not a single negative post on KPJ.

    Maybe I have that on ignore ....
     
    charlieaustin likes this.
  8. fryjol7

    fryjol7 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    955
    Regarding Wall, take a look at the last article on The Athletic, it's Hollinger feat Iko. They arrive to the conclusion that Wall is getting a buy out this coming offseason, if we end up landing one of the top prospects.

    I'm not sure Fertita is going to bite the bullet, buuuut on the court it makes a lot of sense. Hollinger gives a couple of reasons why he believes it also makes sense for Fertita off court. Mainly the ability to spread the remaining money in 5 years.

    The article was focused on Wall and I missed or it was not clear, the impact this scenario could have in our ability to chase other free agents/cap space
     
    DonatelloLimestone likes this.
  9. sydmill

    sydmill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    775
    That could be the play if they end up selecting Cunningham or Green. Would open up minutes in the backcourt for sure.
     
  10. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 1999
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    531
    There has literally been no KPJ hate on this board that I have seen. I have serious doubts that he will become what some are predicting that he becomes but zero hate. I see the talent but he looks like a smaller Tyreke Evans type than Harden at least to me. That’s not a bad thing but certainly not a franchise player. I don’t get the people who are offended because you don’t see the same thing that they are seeing.
     
    charlieaustin likes this.
  11. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,536
    Likes Received:
    6,159
    KMjr:
    First 37 games:
    ........pts.........mins.......FG%......3P%........3PA......rebs......Ast.....
    ........7.4.........20.7........51%......28.6%......1.3.......4.7........0.6......

    Last 4 games:
    ........pts..........mins......FG%........3P%........3PA.....rebs......Ast.....
    .......22.3.........38.7......54.5%......54.2%......6.0......8.3........3.8......

    You asked me about Kuminga yesterday. Because of the emergence of KMjr I'm backing
    off of Kuminga. Martin is playing (in last 4 games) like House should have been playing all
    season. Cuts, slashes, lobs, I predicted House would go from 11 points last year to 17 points
    per game. Kenyon Martin Jr is hitting that stride now.

    Martin has surpassed both Tate and House imo. I go SF) Martin......Tate / House (trade x ham sandwich).

    Martin was listed at center this past game vs Gobert. Gobert had something like 13 points.
    So the move didn't kill the Rockets but I don't that can be too successful over time. I'm
    comfortable moving forward with Martin as my starting SF. Tate a floater there and at PF.
    Just my opinion.
     
    BamBam and jch1911 like this.
  12. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    damn when a 01'er comes out and drops some knowledge.

    [​IMG]
     
    burlesk and topfive like this.
  13. DonatelloLimestone

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2021
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    burlesk and DCkid like this.
  14. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,536
    Likes Received:
    6,159
    I like the roster you have listed. I have the same with exception to Usman Garuba. I don't
    feel he will be around for our later picks.

    And I don't see the need for Augustin if Cade is added. Today's NBA has more than point guards
    and shooting guards running the offense. More and more Power Forwards and Centers are asking
    to initiate the set. Silas likes to give the ball to the center of PF near the FT line to run back door cuts
    and dives to the rim beneath it......behind the scenes along the baseline and such.

    With Wood, Olynyk they offer a taller vantage point in which to create/pass. Or give the impression
    as a means of getting the defender's hands up.......then Wood/Olynyk can then put the ball on the court
    and drive. In the case of Tate.....just crafty and can get around most defenders guarding him if he gets
    their hands up looking for him to pass.

    With Wall, Wood, Porter, Eric Gordon Cade, Olynyk, Tate........Augustin will collect dust on the bench all year....while
    collecting $7 million. I don't think Tilman goes for that. Again just me. I'm frugal like that......like Tilman
     
  15. DonatelloLimestone

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2021
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    What do you plan to do when KPJ and Wood become free agents commanding 20 million plus in 2 seasons? They will. The nba economics doesn't exactly pan out your bad news bears under dog situation, now less than ever. The revenue is growing, the players have their fair share, the money is only getting more.

    Role players get paid, and it makes a difference on the margins. Go back to any of the past rings, Marc Gasol at 35 wasn't worth 50 million for the Raptors, they went for it, got the right bounce, and history is made. We know as well as anyone the margins in the playoffs is that close. Cavs overpaid for JR, Tristan, and Love, but those guys had leverage if cavs wanted to compete. It takes depth, it takes talent and role players and cohesion to win rings. John Paxon, Steve Kerr, Kenny Smith, Mario Elie, Robert Horry, AVery Johnson, Derek Fisher, so on and so forth every year there are role players, older guys, guys not worth the headlines who might be over paid but they add to cohesion, they make big shots, big plays and that allows the game to work and can make the difference. Only espn sells some idea of nba being won 1-1. Players know this. Thats why MJ the great demanded more talent after 7 years of killing the league by himself, thats why Lebron left after 7 years of dominating individually to play with a hof team, thats why Kobe demanded a trade or talent after his big year in Lakers because basketball is a team sport and you need the right pieces to get the chip.

    The model you describe is the pacers. Mediocre, unwilling to spend too high above the threshold and create a good enough team to be profitable and have an entertaining draw to the fans and hopefully you get lucky and go far, but thats it. You know who the winner in that is? The owner. Thats it. And the nba par just continues to rise above all that still.
     
  16. DonatelloLimestone

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2021
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    1,068

    We do need Vets. All these young guys need guys they can look to for the grind of the season, for prep, for adversity. Miami pays haslem to be the 'culture'. We need to build our player development staff and infrastructure as well with such a young team.

    That team is fun, its great to cheer for, but its not a winner in this league. That might be a value for Augustin who isn't a huge contract, but I like the talent on that team and cade would give us a lot to look for. With kpj and cade we have two great playmakers who will make woods job easier and they can both light it up too. Tate and KMJ fit around everyone and add grit and physicality. would be a very, very fun team and an annoying out for the rest of the league. Olynk fits, but at 30 years old looking at his 'big pay day' how much does he command this offseason? Hes been amazing for us.
     
    Bo6 likes this.
  17. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    6,889
    Likes Received:
    7,440
    This was the very first thought on the thread!! LOL

    am I missing something?
     
  18. sydmill

    sydmill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    775
    I may not disagree with you but I need to see more. Who is the real KMart? The guy in the first 37 games or the guy playing on the gutted roster of the worst team in the NBA these past 4 games? I revived this thread because I think it is a discussion worth having whether we might have a starter or at least a heavy minute small forward in Martin based on his recent performances. Im not sold he isnt a backup 4 who is more effort guy than the 20 ppg scorer he has been of late. Would love to be wrong because that would really help the rebuild.
     
  19. sydmill

    sydmill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    775
    The Rockets are in prime position for a faller at the Portland pick and I could see Garuba being that guy. He could/should go late lottery but I think his offensive impact is being seen as less and less. At one time his passing was seen as a plus but that hasnt been the case lately. We'll see.

    As for Augustin, I think his contract makes him a bargain and he is the only pure point guard on that roster so I think he is worth the money in addition to being a vet. I have to disagree with your recent "frugal moves". The rockets signing Cam Oliver off the scrap heap should not at all impact their decision with a top draft pick. The chances he is even on the roster next season arent great much less that he is a player that impacts long term decisions.
     
  20. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    5,667

    I think we have different definitions of what Hate is.

    Carry on.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now