I watched A&E this afternoon: "Set Free to Kill Again." Story of Robert McDuffie (?) who was famous as the Broom Handle Killer that killed 3 people in 1966 as a 20YO. Sentenced to death, he had his death sentence commuted to Life when the Death Penalty was ruled unconstitutional. Later he was released from prison because of the overcrowded conditions in Texas prisons. He went back once because he violated parole by pulling a knife on 3 young black men while he hurled racial epithets at them. A few months later he was released again in tht famous "Catch and Release Program." As a free man once again, he killed 5 more women over ~8 years before being caught and incarcerated again. A swiftly delivered Death Penalty would have meant that five young, innocent women would be alive today. I'm all for the economy of getting rid of these scumbags as quickly as possible so that we don't waste too much money on them ... other than making absolutely sure that they are guilty.
From deathpenaltyinfo.org: The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life (Duke University, May 1993.) On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion dollars spent since 1976 on the death penalty. The study,"The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina" is available on line at www-pps.aas.duke.edu/people/faculty/cook/comnc.pdf The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total in incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988). Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution. (Miami Herald, July 10, 1988). In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992). So if it isn't a more economical option, does that change your argument?
Not yet, but I am inclining that way. I'm not against the death penalty... OBVIOUSLY. If we can't find the courage to deliver the penalty in a more timely fashion to those who receive it as punishment, then we might as well consider doing away with it. I'd prefer that we find the courage to mete out the sentence in a timely fashion (isn't that the real cause of the heavy cost?) rather than have the system logjammed by the defense attorneys. Providing fair defense is one thing; pulling any trick feasible to get your client off the hook is another.
The people carrying out the execution are just as brutal as the offender. Until we do away with that kind of thinking, our species will never evolve. We will never be truly civilized.
Emotions cloud judgement. I'm against the death penalty. If it worked, I'd probably think differently. But for now, it's racially motivated, uneconomical, and leaves a large door for innocent people being convicted because of unequal representation caused by court appointed defense attorneys for those who can't afford a decent laywer that can handle a capital crime. It hasn't prevented crime, and in my opinion it's mainly used for politicians who want a quick way to be "tough on crime." Any Christian who believes in forgiving people for their sins is supporting a program that can send reformed people to their deaths.
For those of you who believe in cruel punishments, read this description of the public execution of Damiens in 18th century France from Michael Focault. Is this the way a civilized world should be? Sounds like a real utopia.
<b>Invisible Fan</b>: How is the Death Penalty racially motivated? I know the Criminal Justice system is whacked. Do too many black criminals get the death penalty or just not enough white criminals? Maybe we should have criminal justice reform that mimicks campaign finance reform !
For all of you rejecting this type of execution: If a parent of yours or child of yours is brutally murdered, would you want the killer to die a quick death or a brutal death. Put yourself in that situation. I would want the b*stard to die as painful a death as possible. I feel like I am civilized, but for him to get a quick death is not justice. He should go through the same pain and agony as his victims. Then, justice prevails.
Of course the parents would want that. That still doesn't make it right. Blind emotion can't rule the world.
Clearly this is speculation for all of us, since we can't really know what we'd do in that situation. But I don't base my behavior on the principle of "eye for and eye" so calling for someone's death (for whatever reason) would be completely out of character for me. No matter how the killer is executed, it will never bring my loved one back and it only perpetuates the cycle of violence.
Committing a stupid crime gaining you a death sentence: $0 Using a sack for a death sentence: $23 Using a lethal injection for a death sentence: $2.3 M Reading about it on the Clutch BBS: Priceless Some death sentences money can buy, for every discussion there's the BBS. Why does this fascinate us as Americans? Why do they not lock uncle sicko in a room with a desperate rhino? Why do I get the feeling we're missing the tragedy in this story? We're all desensitized.
A few stats about the racial profile on death row: <i>Over 82 percent of those on death row were convicted of killing a white person, though people of color make up more than 50 percent of all homicide victims in the U.S. In addition 43 percent of those on death row are black, though only 12 percent of the U.S. population is black.</i> and <i>The American Bar Association (ABA) has reported that over 90% of those on death row couldn't afford their own attorney at trial and were appointed counsel. International attention was brought to the United States system of appointing counsel to indigent defendants last year when a 3 judge panel of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that death row inmate Calvin Burdine did not deserve a new trial even though his attorney slept through most of the original trial. No state has met the 1990 standards developed by the ABA for the training and appointment of counsel for indigent defendants.</i> From http://www.themoratoriumcampaign.org/ <i>In 1990 a report from the General Accounting Office concluded that "in 82 percent of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty." Politics, quality of legal counsel and the jurisdiction where a crime is committed are more often the determining factors in a death penalty case than the facts of the crime itself. Of the 22,000 homicides committed every year 300 people are sentenced to death.</i> From http://www.deathpenalty.org/
Jeff -- agreed..the numbers are overwhelming...I do think there is some inherent racism that leads to the death penalty far more if it's a black man than a white man facing the same charges. i have done a 180 on this issue in the last year or so (maybe less). some of that is because of some conversations i've had with a few of you...particularly with Grizzled. my concern here is that we're putting innocent people to death at times...and that can't be stomached...and as long as man is imperfect, there is no way you can have the death penalty without sometimes getting it wrong...so, in my thinking, you can't have it at all. as for how i'd feel as a parent if my child were killed...i can feel anger building in my stomach while i'm writing this and watching him eating his toast and jelly this morning....but one of the ideas behind the criminal justice system is to reduce retributive justice from victim to criminal. probably not a good policy to ask family members, who are obviously overwhelmed with emotion, what they want to happen to the criminal,
Believe it or not, that's my biggest argument. I do have a moral objection to the death penalty, but the possibility of a mistake is the one that drives my decision more than any other. If one single innocent person, and there is no question that has already happened, that is WAY too many.
Woah! Did I read that right? Who are you and what have you done with Max???!!!!! Personally if any of my loved ones is ever killed, the cops had damned well better find the culprit before I do.
I hate to tell you this, but revenge has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with justice. Executions and other punishments ARE NOT implemented to satisfy and make bloodthirsty victims feel better. They are meant to be deterrents. Would you feel the same way if you were the one who had to administer the punishment? If you read the link that I posted above, "as painful a death as possible", carries a lot of weight.
That is a lot of tough talk. So you don't believe that a person should be given a trial to determine their guilt? And you don't believe that you should suffer the same penalty for murder that the original killer did?
<b>Jeff</b>: I had a problem with the use of the word "motivated." I know that there is a racial disproportionality surrounding the use of the death penalty but I don't see it being racially "motivated." It seems to be more a problem of failures in our system of justice that exist long before the sentence is rendered. Money buys extravagant defense. Leniency in the system. Inadequate defense resources, etc.
The key is that this isn't just on the judge and jury. This is on the DA and how he/she decides to prosecute. This is on the Grand Jury and how they approach it. When you look at the overwhelming number of African Americans on death row for the murder of white people as compared to murder for their own race, it is fairly apparent that the system is applied unfairly.
