Just found this article in ESPN: One big question for Answer By Ralph Wiley Page 2 columnist Allen Iverson put the "nil" in nihilism. Given that, the question now is, where does a Thug Lifer go, when Thug Life is the only life he knows? Straight to hell? What do the 76ers do with him in the meantime? The legal case against Iverson? "It ain't even a question," said Road Dog, trying his best to sound like Ja Rule. And he's right. What case? It's not about this particular case, 14 counts of air, smoke and mirrors Iverson caught after chasing after his wife (who he allegedly threw out of the house buck naked) to her cousin's apartment. The resident occupants, complete ciphers without Iverson to kick around, say he was packing heat. In his waistband. They think. Nobody's proved this, or even found a piece. Without any proof he was packing there's no case. Even if it's proved he had a gun but didn't pull it, there's no case. And everybody on the night cophouse beat knows it. Any lawyer could tell us this is dead air, a nothing case, and several Philadelphia lawyers have tried. This isn't a case. It's an episode of "Cheaters." This isn't a case. It's a waste of taxpayer money -- as if taxpayer money isn't being wasted enough lately. Nine big strong, competent, Philly detectives, to serve one search warrant? Two of them could've gone over to Al Unser Jr.'s house, don't you think? Road Dog thinks so. Says the old double-standard, the old in-and-out, in-and-out, is being applied to Alley I., with gusto. And yeah the sky is blue, Dog. So what? Get back in your cage before somebody sends nine cops over to serve a warrant on you. There are larger issues here than this one case. It's not a question of whether the Iversons will have remorse and reconcile. There's not any question that Alley I. will beat it. The question is, what then? Iverson's already doing life. In his own private hell. He's a Thug Lifer. If it ends well, it'll be an upset, greatest comeback he ever pulled off. It's all good to amuse and entertain Philadelphians of all colors and ages, which you did, Allen Iverson, as the star scorer of the Sixers. It's all good that your sneaker has become the sneaker du jour, and that you are helping Reebok put a headlock on Nike. It's all good that your Iverson jersey is the best selling NBA jersey, more than Shaq's, more than Kobe's. It's all good that you, A.I., are an anti-hero to thousands if not millions of disaffected youth. Only those disaffected youth are eventually going to pull the studs out of their noses and tongues and leave their youth behind them. Reebok will find some other horse to ride. Another guy's jersey will sell. What do you do then, when Thug Life is the only life you know, and the rest of life begins to pass you by?
While I could not find anything on specifically what Iverson did, I got this snippet from the city of Hampton's official site: Since it states that the crime rate is well below the national average for cities of comperable size (approx. 140,000) I would feel comfortable in saying that brandishing a weapon and kicking your wife out into the street naked is not considered normal there.
giddyup, thx for answering my questions. I'm glad we didnt' really rehash what you already said, and what I read. I don't read the Hangout much, and you seem to write mostly there. Don't take my lack of response to you as meaning anything. I'm responding to you here, not to defend Iverson, but because I don't agree with your manner of expressing yourself as a role model. I do not understand your opening post at all. It shocks me to see people stuff like that. btw: Iverson is not really twice-convicted, as "expunging" one's conviction after serving time is supposed to wipe that off the record and not be considered by the courts in further convictions. So, you indeed are judging beyond the courts laws. DaDakota said "brandishing" and you said "pulling a gun" in a rhetorical statement that clearly can be taken as referring to Iverson's situation, as you refer to "having money." R0ckets03 said pulling a gun numerous times. The context was floating around and you had you chance to say otherwise, but chose the rhetorical "pulling a gun," so in my eyes, you fed that misinformation further, if not fully embraced that notion. I am also not buying your statement, " I don't go around hoping people ruin their lives because we need bad examples." Are you saying that he has already "ruined" his life? That directly contradicts your first impulse response in this thread, where you said, "you hope he goes to jail, and hope the kids are paying attention." Your difference seems to be that you are taking the role of saying that he has ruined his life, and needs to be made example of. I don't subscribe to your take as a positive role model for kids. I don't believe we should judge, and you are clearly judging Iverson in hopes that kids learn from his failures. pre-judging people and pointing out their negatives for children to see serves no purpose in raising kids, imo. You make it sound like it is so easy for someone to rise up like John Lucas and be a positive role model. Give Iverson time, and let his wife do the judging, and the courts. That is not our responsibility, and I believe it is a bad role model to show we as adults do that--ie., judge people. I believe judging people's life and teaching kids to do that (can I say, prejudicing) is a worse crime to the (in your words) "fabric of society" than tatoos, arguing with a coach, and rap songs. Don't get me wrong, marital disputes are really bad to. But I will not judge that, as much of it comes from dysfunctional situations...where placing blame seldom works. <b>As for your misrepresentation of Iverson's upbringing versus Isiah</b> You are also judging without accurately showing concern for getting the facts right about his upbringing. You keep saying he was from Hampton, and say Isiah was from Chicago, with a single mother. I mean, it is fine to say that impoverished kids use that as an excuse sometimes to do crimes, but you seem to try to say that Iverson was not very impoverished. That is just ignorant. The entire Hampton Roads area is where poverty and wealth are side-by-side. Iverson was raised with no dad, and a 15-yr old mother and no maternal grandmother, and his mother's boyfriend was in and out of jail (once for stabbing another girlfriend)...a very poor upbringing, in the projects of Hampton. It is well know his family dealt with hardships like an ill younger sister, medical bills, no electricy, heat and water for days on end when bills couldn't be payed. You ask us if we know someone who waves guns (which is a false fact in this case), so how many kids do you know were raised intermittently lacking such basic necessities as water, that we take for granted. I certainly can't image that childhood. Isiah did not have those problems. He was the youngest kid in a large family (so his mother was more experienced than Iverson's), and had many brothers to protect him, and they did just that, although several of them got into trouble. I followed Isiah's career in HS, and read much about this. He was taken out of the West Side to go to St Joseph's...do you recall Hoop Dreams? He was watched out for. Iverson had no one to watch out for him, yet is improving, given his upbringing. And I can accept your take on rimbauds regarding he eventually needs to stop all poor behavior. He is not perfect, but neither was John Lucas. imo, Iverson has the ability to make a big impact on kids face-to-face, so why hope he has some fatal failure and goes to jail? I believe John Lucas is a better role model for kids than Kobe Bryant (Mr. Obey Your Thirst). I am surprised at how many inaccuracies you use in your hope Iverson goes to jail. If you really believe those inaccurracies, and continue trends on this topic to emphasize them and prejudice him to those falsehood's then I have to call you a bad role model, especially if you intend to judge people with inaccurracies in front of children.
Read heypartner's post. Your stats dont convey anything. It doesnt mean that Iverson grew up in the "good" part of Hampton.
Thanks hp, I did not really know much about Isaiah's life growing up. In regards to Iverson, what I remember about his earlier encounters: When he went to jail he was supposedly just in a crowd of people that turned into a bit of a mass free for all behind a bowling alley. That was what was expunged, correct? Does he have two mar1juana possession charges? That is all I remember. Anyway, I think one thing that has not been mentioned with all of this crime/fame stuff is that Iverson is probably much better off (as far as being a law abiding citizen goes) now than had he not been able to play ball...and that is both sad and stupid. My views on him are really too complicated for this thread...since we are only dealing in simple terms... I disagree with DaDa that Iverson is just some punk thug...I don't see in black and white like that. I do think that he is very limited. So, oh well... On a different note, do the black athletes (ooh, it is a race thing) that can get away with various small crimes (or maybe even murder) balance out the disproportionate ratio of jail time for normal blacks vs whites convicted for the same crimes? Or does it just made it worse because Johnny Whiteguy only really knows about the high profile guys that "get away with everything."
<b>heypartner</b>: What bug is up you behind. I am not judging Iverson in front of children. I am talking about his case on an adult board with other interested parties. Isn't that different? <b>HANGOUT</B> I'm in the Hangout because I almost never get to see the Rockets play because I am out of state. With Yao, I hope that will change! <b>TWICE-CONVICTED?</B> He is only not twice-convicted if he goes to trial again. I am not trying him inspite of your efforts to prove I am! He has been convicted twice before. Is that better? I'm not really sure why you want to play with words so. <b>MY LECTURE FOR THE CHILDREN</B> There is no such lecture. I am not pointing out anything to children. Iverson has drawn the attention to himself. I am merely commenting to those on this board. How many are children? Didn't someone say that kids by more Iverson jerseys than any other NBA jersey on the market. So they are watching. I don't think they should see criminal behavior go unpunished. All I said is that, if he is guilty as charged, he shouldn't go unpunished due to celebrity. No big deal. I have yet to talk to any child about this case..... <b>YOU'RE NOT BUYING MY STATEMENT</B> So don't buy. I don't really get your tongue-in-cheek analysis of what I said. Do you really think I just willy-nilly have it in for Iverson? Who else is on my blacklist? That is ludicrous. There is a difference between judging and discernment. With judgement you sit around a table with 11 others and determine someone's future. With discerning, you just gather the facts as can best be gathered and jabber about it with friends and strangers. <b>COMPARING TO ISAIAH</B> rezdawg kept hitting on the fact that Iverson had no father and grew up in The Hood. I challenged that by pointing up a single example (I know there are many more) of kids raised by single moms who, in fact, did grow up in The Hood and turned out fine. I chose Isaiah because, to my knowledge, he has no criminal record and is well-thought of and he did, in fact, grow up in The Hood (in Chicage contrasted to Iverson's upbringing in Hampton, VA). Iverson did have someone to watch out for him: John Thompson. Iverson's mother specifically requested that he be taken under JT's wing. I guess he just rejected JT, too. <b>heypartner</b>: "I am surprised at how many inaccuracies you use in your hope Iverson goes to jail. If you really believe those inaccurracies, and continue trends on this topic to emphasize them and prejudice him to those falsehood's then I have to call you a bad role model, especially if you intend to judge people with inaccurracies in front of children." <b>giddyup</b>: What are my "inaccuracies?" The demographics of Hampton, VA? The improved status of Isaiah's childhood? The exact location and use of the gun? This is a general discussion in a free country not evidence citation in a courtroom. You sure know how to take the fun out of a discussion! Excuse me, I have to go judge someone else unfairly in front of some children. And I have another group tomorrow, too! Who can I next inflict my ill-wishes upon? I think that Dickau doesn't deserve to succeed. Let's get him! This is just too hilarious. <b>rimbaud</b>: I believe that Iverson also had a gun-related charge in Richmond, VA. Keep keeping it simple....
No...and I'll tell you why. It's not just black athletes that get away with some crimes... It's wealthy people in general! Please don't use the OJ case as a catch-all example of sports, wealth, race, and the law. Wealthy white men who can afford good lawyers get away with crimes as well. I'd really like to know, other than OJ, just how may examples there are of black men supposedly getting preferential treatment in the courts.
Let's all just blame our upbringing for our loutish behaviour as an adult. BULLHOCKEY !!! Iverson is a man, he knows what is right and what is wrong...and kicking his wife out of the house...is NEVER right. Nor is breaking down someone's door and threatening them, all the while brandishing a weapon. Ok, ok, he may or may not have had said weapon, but even if he just THREATENS like he has one then he is guilty of a felonious assault charge. Iverson is a punk and has no care for common decency, our society is one of laws and if he breaks them...he pays the price...rich and famous or not. I hope he rots in his prison and maybe he can have Mike Tyson as a cell mate as they are both cut from the same cloth. DaDakota
Correct!! He knows right from wrong. BUT, he doesnt care and that is a direct result of his upbringing.
No, its not right. But it doesn't necessitate the ruination of his life or career as many seem to think on this board.
Rez, I agree he doesn't care and that is why so many don't care about him either. Patience, It may not ruin his career but it certainly is not helping it. I admit I do not like the guy, nor his lack of morals, I just don't respect him one iota. DaDakota
He doesnt care about me and I dont care what he does off the court. His life is his life. It is none of my business. I just want him to entertain me playing basketball. Plus, the eastern conference needs him. They are hopeless.
DaDakota, Just say your are exaggerating that Iverson is charged with "brandishing a weapon" and maybe I'll read your take. Exaggerations are not necessary for reasonable takes. Hydra, likewise The Hampton Roads area that includes Hampton are known quite well for extreme poverty and extreme wealth being side-by-side. You describing the "normal" majority is completely off the subject of what rezdawg is describing. Saying Iverson should be convicted, these things are about facing justice, and so are things like his expunged adolescent record for serving his time and finishing HS (part of his conditions of expunging his record). No one is really arguing that. Speaking of upbringing, role models, effects of poverty and dysfunctional families, and problems of the "fabric of society" to glamourize fame is not a discussion of justice. I don't believe in making this a discussion of justice in a manner where we judge others and society, and discuss what is right and wrong. imo, it is the duty of everyone to not judge strangers, much less allow that flaw to transfer to our children, as if that helps or fixes societal flaws. As far as I know, Iverson was going to kill is wife and should be jailed. But equally, as far as I know, his high school sweetheart wife is troubled as well, and not improving her life, and Iverson lost it and went too far, yet truly has her best interest in mind, but doesn't know how to deal with it. I believe in Iverson. I don't think his fame is "what's wrong with the fabric of society" as much as pointing fingers and judging strangers is. I believe he learns from his mistakes, and I believe he takes care of his family and friends. I believe he is honest when he speaks. I believe John Thompson and Larry Brown when they say he is a good kid. I believe he is stubborn and doesn't always listen to ways to improve himself. But at his core, I believe he is good. I hope he works things out with his wife or gets an amicable divorce. I don't see him as a menace to society, despite the fact he could be a much better role model like Carlos Rogers and John Lucas. I am rooting for him and his family.
Patience, You are no fun...I was just making a sad joke with things such as your response in mind. I know, you had no way of knowing...
Damn, I'm worse than Iverson.... Where's the money? <b>heypartner</b>e: "As far as I know, Iverson was going to kill is wife and should be jailed." But when I say much the same thing, I am just being judgemental and prejudicial ... "for the children's sake." heypartner, you are one passive-aggressive dude...
I may be wrong, but AI's TV biography, that was aired during the all-star festivities this past year said that he is from Newport News, VA (aka, "Bad News"). Supposedly a pretty hard neighborhood with a lot of crime, thus the nickname.
HP, Brandishing can mean just showing the weapon, or implying it is there, it does not necessarily mean pointing it around. From the police report it and articles I have read the guy whose apartment Iverson broke into said he was using a gun to threaten him, thus the brandishing. I really don't care what Iverson does as long as he does it only to himself, when he starts tossing out his wife (someone he SUPPOSEDLY LOVES) naked into the night, then he has a problem. Iverson is a good for nothing punk and the NBA would be better off without him. JR RIDER ANYONE???????????? DaDakota
