Oh, I know. And I respect him for that. And I would not think he would use his upbringing as an excuse. I was just thinking globally. RR
Isn't he just surrendering to police with his lawyer to avoid an arrest scene? That would do wonders for his Reebok career! Imagine the photos.... This is no admission of wrong-doing, it is recognizing the inevitable and spinning it to your benefit. That is certainly his right if the police will extend it to him, but it is nothing more.... <b>rezdawg</b>: What's unfair? Wasn't it Iverson's name in the headlines? It is interesting to compare this situation to Jayson Williams' murder charges. People are sorry for and seem shocked by Jayon's troubles while AI seems to have gotten what he deserved because it is part of a continual lifestyle.
Like I said, the thread should state: Kick Athletes Out, those Pieces of Sh*t!! The reason is that the issues involved in this thread relate to athletes in general, not to Iverson alone.
Iverson is the posterboy for how most people think of 'athletes'. Not any one particular athlete, but 'athletes' in general. The fact is that workers (which athletes, and movie stars too) in America come from every strata of life. I worked with a guy like Iverson at bank when I was in a high school work program. He had braids, a rough goatee, gruffness about him. He had a piece that he kept in the trunk of his car. He had run with gangs when he was younger, and he told me he was never, ever going to 'forget' where he came from. But to see him now you'd never know it. While I moved on from the bank and went to college and into the computer industry he stayed there with the bank. He moved up within from securities processing to various departments finally landing a nice well paying job interacting with big institutional companies. Keeping it real is no longer important to him. As he moved he encountered silent pressure to conform, and as he wanted to move up he did it. That pressure doesn't exist for athletes and for movie stars.
Sorry, Rich, missed your response to me. Uh, I still think you missed the point, since you went into a discussion of right and wrong and people doing what they want to do (which was pretty much my point). My sole argument was that you expect too much if you expect people like Iverson to think about much outside of their own ego-driven world. He does not care about you and your children...my speaking of environment was merely to reinforce how these guys get to be like that - what environment produces them. That is why I felt you were oversimplifying my point - because you just lumped me with rezdawg when our arguments were different. So, if I and everything I say is really simple and I am just trying to complicate things to hide guilt...wow, the fun I could have with that.
<b>patience</b>: I did say "fame"-- "if Iverson wants to sell out for the big bucks and fame..." No one needs special training to be a role model. Just don't be a punk or a crook or, otherwise, some kind of embarassment. Be nice to people. Keep your nose clean. It's not that hard. Making it sound harder than it is is just excuse-making for the degenerates. Sheen and Lowe faced severe challenges to their careers. Maybe they cleaned up their acts because they didn't have guaranteed contracts and that image was not a selling point like it is for Iverson with his gangsta rap crap. How many people do you know with domestic trouble who threw their wife out into the street naked and then with impunity went looking for them with a gun? Me? None. Stop coddling the creep. Don't even try to play the race card. This is about Allen Iverson and what he did... whatever his race. Hey, I'd say the same thing about Eminem! I never said anything about it being in "his nature." I described it as a learned/chosen lifestyle. Agreed on Rae Carruth, though.
The guy is 27 years old. If he hasn't figured it out with one stint in jail and a couple of other scrapes it's a problem of his stupidity, his character, or both. This particular event has 14 misdemeanor/felony charges attached to it, I believe. He has not been held accountable because of his celebrity, but I hope he is about to find out differently. We don't need this kind of example of "bad acting" gone unpunished. Didn't Isaiah Thomas come from a similar background. Single mother and, oh-no, the streets of Chicago not Hampton, VA. How did he turn out to be such a hero... whle Iverson is failing so miserably. Don't forget about the many, many (how many?) who succeeded in total anonymity. We don't know them from police reports or sports pages. They just live a quiet decent life having come from a similar background. I think I lumped you in there with rezdawg because I thought you were just both making excuses for him. I think I understand/stood the different points you were trying to make. I know AI doesn't care about my children, but he should care about children in general. I am pretty well-behaved because it is best for everyone. That's not a hard concept. Now, go have some fun... just keep it civil!
Ugh...you seem to be arguing with me by bringing up points that I am trying to make. For example: The guy is 27 years old. If he hasn't figured it out with one stint in jail and a couple of other scrapes it's a problem of his stupidity, his character, or both. Yep, that is my point...he is stupid, selfish, and doesn't want to change (and will never be forced to change). He has not been held accountable because of his celebrity, but I hope he is about to find out differently. We don't need this kind of example of "bad acting" gone unpunished. Agreed...however, I would argue that it is also because of his celebrity - that he, as an uneducated spoiled baby, has been handed so much, allowed to cheat, et because he could make some money for some team in the future... Thomas comes out as a hero simply because he did not go breaking the law. He is still uneducated and supposedly has serious ego problems and did things you probably would never consider. Besides, he also played in a different era - so is not completely comparable to Iverson...but sure, there are always exceptions, I know I am just generalizing. I know AI doesn't care about my children, but he should care about children in general. I am pretty well-behaved because it is best for everyone. That's not a hard concept. Here is the problem. Why should he (not in the general good way, but why should he in his eyes)? If he will not be held accountable, has gotten away with things before, and only cares about himself and his respect (and if he posted on this bbs, he would be called a mo-ron)? I am amazed that I could be thought to be defending someone when I call him (basically) a stupid, self-centered baby. Lol, reminds me of the days when I was lumped in as a Clinton supporter. Thankfully, that stopped. Don't you remember that I am the elitist academic sitting in my lofty tower, looking down with contempt at you all?
I'm not arguing with you, are you with me? I'm just on a rant about Iverson. Once I start, it get's hard to stop. Even people who "get away with it," know they are getting away with it don't they? A refusal to change is just that... a refusal. They refuse generally because they don't have to and the longer it goes on or is allowed to go on .... the harder it becomes to change. <b>rimbaud</b>, I told you a long time ago that I wanted to meet you. I don't dwell in the tower but I know a lot of people who do. At one time, I aspired for that myself.
Patience: Charlie Sheen and Rob Lowe didn't threaten to kill anybody. Charlie Sheen was sleeping around with hookers. Their actions were similar to when Patrick Ewing and some nba players were in the news a while back for hanging out with hookers and mobsters, but they weren't portrayed as violent black thugs.
Guys, Forget Race, this is not about RACE, it is about an idiot busting into someone's house, threatening them, and brandishing a gun. He should be sent away.....that is UNACCEPTABLE behaviour from ANYONE !!!! Iverson is a punk, he has had every chance in the world to better himselft. To constantly blame your background or upbringing is a cop out. To boil it down to its root.....People make choices and they are to be judged by the consequences of those choices. Iverson made a CHOICE to throw his wife out naked in the street, he made a CHOICE to threaten with a gun, he made a CHOICE to be a thug. Iverson is an idiot, do you realize that if the other guy had a gun, he could have shot Iverson with no penalty whatsoever? DaDakota
I am not arguing with you...it just seemed you thought you were "countering" me, but were basically saying similar things...argue was a bad choice of words. The rest of your post was basically what I was saying, so I wil just say, "uh huh." Don't try to make common ground here...we are not the same. I am better. Besides, you don't really want to meet me, you just think you do because you don't know any better. You can sit in on my Romanticism class tomorrow, though...you are not that far from Atanta, right?
Oh, I know that. Like any red-blooded American, too much hero-worship going around... LOL! Six hours to Atlanta... can you just send me the class notes?
Noes would not do my in-class brilliance justice. Besides, they would have to be notes from one of my students and I certainly don't trust them to pay attention.
DaDakota and Giddyup, You both have mentioned that Iverson was waving and brandishing a gun. <b>That is not true, according to the complaintant.</b> <b>So would you both just scale that back to reality. </b> Also, I cannot believe anyone would back up the Title of this Thread. Why is it that people pick such outragious takes to make their more reasonable one. giddyup, I've read what you said, and can appreciate your later take with rimbaud, but you came into this thread in a manner is not a positive role model to me. So I'd like to hear your take about the title of the thread and the author's take. You say you like to rant about Iverson. That's not a big deal to me, as R0ckets03 and others do the same thing. But you wrapped you rant around your family values proclaiming what a role model is in "a simple view." With that lead in, allow me to explain in simplistic manner, that I question your view of what is a good role model, if you really do want children to learn from other's failure, as you said in your opening reply to an extreme take on Iverson. Why did you choose to make your rant in a manner that doesn't dispell the extreme take of the thread, seemingly backing it. You said, "I hope he goes to jail and ruins his NBA career." Do you think he is no better than OJ, as Sphere said? Why? How are you being a responsible, role model for wishing ill-will on someone for children to witness? I would like to see if you would back off that statement of wishing Iverson would ruin his life, presumably because you want sacrifice his life for the greater good of the children. How exactly does that work? Sounds like you are up in rimbaud's tower picking off people from above to make them examples for society. That is not your purpose to choose who should fail. Is it? That does not seem like your role. Does it? Thus, how does that fit in with your later post in this thread: <i>"Everybody has a responsibility to be a role model. Chew on that one...</i> From my viewpoint, you are going way outside your role in your responsibility to be a "role model." Do you believe we as role models should prejudice those who we do not know before they are judged by their peers (albeit, rich people get better lawyers) in a manner with admitted motivation to teach children by examples of failure alongside examples of success. <b>My simplistic view of role models</b> I agree with your "be nice" and "clean nose." But I also believe our responsibility as role models is also to not judge others and to teach by positive example. You do not seem to completely agree with my simplistic view of you and I as role models. I certainly hope you are not teaching children to point down from above in hopes "creeps" ruin their lives for the children to see their failure in societal shackles for town square display. Wouldn't it be better to find that Iverson's cousin's friend was exaggerating for monetary gain, and the kids find that Iverson is continuing to work on his failures. <b>Afterall, it took John Lucas many years to finally become the role model that kids truly listen to.</b> Let Iverson grow, and don't judge. It is not your role. Let's hope his wife is a good judge and in control. That would be better for "a lot of kids to be paying attention to" as you put it.
Damn, <b>heypartner</b> finally responded to something I wrote... but it had to be in this fashion. I scanned all of my posts and I can't find a reference I made to Iverson "brandishing" a gun. I had heard that he had a gun tucked inside his pants and had shown it while announcing he wanted to kill his wife when he found her. That's bad enough. Threads are headlines. I didn't choose it, but I don't really disagree with it either. Here's my opening reply: "I hope he goes to jail and ruins his NBA career. And I hope a lot of kids are paying attention when he does." After some previous convictions and approximately 14 felony or misdemeanor counts in this charge, I think it is time to pay the piper. I didn't wish the crime on some innocent-- minding his own business. I wished the appropriate punishment (yes, while presuming guilt for the sake of discussion) on a twice-convicted guy who now goes and does something even worse-- much worse. He reportedly threatened to kill his wife ... He gets the privilege of casual house arrest and proceeds to throw a party for a few of his closest friends. Give me a break! My he is remorseful isn't he?!! Iverson is ruining his life; my wishing didn't make it so. I didn't hope he did it. It looks like he did it though. I don't go around hoping people ruin their lives because we need bad examples. I'm not really wishing ill-will on him. I just want him to get his due... especially because people (i.e. kids) are watching. What does AI do while in the midst of this chicanery; he throws a party with his house arrest privileges. What a doofus. I have chosen nothing for AI. He has done it all himself. I am not "judging" him. I'm rendering an opinion on what likely happened from the information that we have culled. If I were "judging" him, he'd already be in jail, wouldn't he? I hope he didn't do it but, as in the OJ case, being found Not Guilty doesn't mean he didn't do it. He is better than OJ beause he didn't kill anybody. Maybe he and she are lucky he didn't find his wife.
Its not a cop out. The reason I brought up the background and upbringing issues is to give an understanding of where he came from. His backgroound has molded him into a the person he is today. Mix that with the fact that he is a celebrity and you get a guy that cares even less because he has more power to do what he wants and get away with it. Iverson is not a normal person. He has serious character problems. I have never stated in this thread that he is right. I think it is blatantly obvious that he is dead wrong. But, I am not surprised that he is the way he is and I feel that some of the posters here are shocked. He will continue to be a rebel in the league. And you know what? The NBA doesnt give a sh*t!! They make so much money off of Iverson, that he could go and murder someone. Then they will give him the best lawyers in the nation just to get him back on the court to make them more money. Iverson doesnt think about the role model issue. He doesnt care about it either. He is getting paid millions and millions to play ball and to entertain. The only problem is that he entertains on and off the court. If I had the chance, I would love to go to a game and watch this guy play. I dont care what he does off the court because that is his life. He can Fu*k it up if he wants to. I just want him to play basketball because he is a bad ass on the court and thats what entertains me.
