Kick BU out of the Big 12

I urge you all to read this:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2003-08-14-ncaa-finances-study_x.htm

and continue the discussion.

Some of the points made in the report:

> For every additional dollar spent on daily operations in football and men's basketball, schools typically realize only an additional dollar in revenue.

> Spending changes have no impact on win-loss records, alumni donations or incoming students' academic standing.

> Of the 117 Division I-A programs, 40% reported an operating profit in 2001. But without state and school subsidies, only 6% made money.


Also, Smokey, I didn't allege that UT is mishandling PUF funds, I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of other state school that could use a cut off of UT's state "welfare check."

 

I don't know that Houston, which posted such records as 2-9, 1-10, 1-9-1, 4-7, and 4-7 in the five years leading up to the formation of the Big XII, would've been the obvious choice for the 12th Big XII team.

SMU is probably the only team in the then-SWC to have a worse record over that time frame. They went 1-10, 1-9-1, 2-7-2, 5-6 and 1-10 during those same five years. Which would mean that both SMU and Houston lost the same number of games over those five years and Houston only won 2 more games.

 

Look at what I said about UH and then tell me where I'm wrong:

Commuter school.
Horrible athlete graduation & horrible transfer/retention ratios. Poor academics.
Craptastic athletic programs (other than baseball)
Utterly pathetic alumni relations & support.

UH's endemic problems are another matter though - read that USA Today article and realize what a huge mess the NCAA & college athletics are.

 

Yeah a link would be helpful but I was trying to think of a conference that doesn't have a private institution and I couldn't. What about the Sun Belt or Conference USA? Do they have private colleges?

 

So then if you want to stick w/ BU's replacement being a private institution, the most likely candidates that MIGHT have some small amount of success in the Big 12 would be TCU & Rice.

Seeing as how (as previously mentioned) Rice's admins wouldn't let Rice get near the Big 12, and this new NCAA report will probably reinforce their position, that leaves TCU.

OK, so then compare TCU to Baylor in every aspect - the Big 12 admins wouldn't pick a school based on based on its athletic program solely.

I would think that academically, economically, and most importantly - politically - Baylor is stronger than TCU, while TCU is stronger athletically in 2 sports - Fball & Baseball.

Then again, in fball TCU doesnt have to play the Big 12 powers every year. How would TCU do if they had to face A&M, Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and UT every year?

They would suck just as Baylor sucks - and since TCU doesn't stack up to Baylor in the other areas mentioned, wtf would the Big 12 bother...

 

By the way, in the five years leading up to the formation of the Big XII, the rest of left-out SWC schools had the following records:

Rice: 2-8-1, 5-6, 6-5, 6-5, 4-7 (23-31-1)

TCU: 6-5, 7-4, 4-7, 2-8-1, 7-4 (26-27-1)

TCU also had 1 Bowl appearance. In 1994, they went to the Independence Bowl.

Over that time span, Baylor went: 7-4, 7-4, 5-6, 6-5, 8-3 (33-22)

Baylor had three Bowl appearances over this time span. In 1994, they went to the Alamo Bowl. In 1992, they went to the Hancock Bowl, and in 1991, they went to the Copper Bowl.

So the standings for those five years was:

Texas A&M: 50-5-1 - Four Bowl Appearances
Texas: 33-21-2 - Two Bowl Appearances
Baylor: 33-22 - Three Bowl Appearances
Texas Tech: 31-24 - Three Bowl Appearances
TCU: 26-27-1 - One Bowl Appearance
Rice: 23-31-1
Houston: 12-42-1
SMU: 10-42-3

 

Conference USA has Tulane.

 

Thank you Mr. Paige,

That shows that Baylor, even w/out Ann's rumored intervention, was deserving of the selection athletically - when picked.

As for kicking them out now, again, I don;t see how TCU, SMU, Rice, or UH would have done any better at all...

 

Just because I added it up, here are the records for the SWC members who remained in 1995 from 1976 (when Houston joined the SWC) through 1995 (the last year of the SWC). These records include bowl wins and losses:

Texas A&M: 163-70-3 (69.1%)
Texas: 151-82-5 (63.4%)
Baylor: 129-95-4 (56.6%)
Houston: 114-109-4 (50.2%)
Texas Tech: 111-105-5 (50.2%)
SMU: 90-107-4 (44.8%)
TCU: 71-145-5 (32.1%)
Rice: 57-159-2 (26.1%)

And, Arkansas, from 1976 through 1991 (when they left the SWC) had the following record:

129-57-3 (68.3%)

This was actually tops of the SWC during that time span. A&M was 122-64-2 (64.9%) and UT was 122-66-3 (63.9%)

 

does anybody else remember that in 1990 or 91, Baylor was ranked as high as #4 in the nation in football?? that was, what?? -- 4 years before the Big XII came about? they won a big game early in the season at Colorado and were ranked at around #4, as i remember it.

it is nothing more than revisionist history to look back and say, "oh, yeah...UH should have been brought to the Big XII in place of Baylor."

 

That would've been 1991.

They beat Colorado in the second game of the season and then went on to put together a 5-0 start to the season (with wins over UTEP, Colorado, Mizzou, SMU and Houston) before dropping one to Rice 20-17.

They finished up the season 8-3 with a last-week 21-11 win over Texas (losses were to Rice, Texas A&M and Texas Tech). They then went on to the Copper Bowl where they couldn't manage a single point against a 6-4-1 Indiana.

I remember watching the Baylor/Arkansas game that year. It was a weird one with a final score of 9-5 (the teams essentially traded safeties at one point in the game).

 

that was a year before i went to baylor...i got there and we sucked. coincidence? i think not!

actually, we were ok the first two seasons i was there...bowl teams...beat arizona in a bowl game after the 92 season.

 

They wouldn't have done better. However, none of those insitutions could ever compete head to head over a long period without cheating.

Therefore, the question is:

1. Which institution will not tolerate any cheating
2. Which institution would increase the academic prestige of the conference.
3. Which institution would provide an inroad to Houston area talent and not force everyone to play at their Junior High facilities.

 

That was the Sun Bowl, Max. Didn't they have a winning record in 1994 as well?

That 1991 game against Rice broke my heart. I was ready for the next week's matchup against Texas A&M. That game ruined the showdown and the Bears pretty much got stomped.

Much like the Bills game was the beginning of the end for Oiler football in Houston, I think the Rice game was the beginning of the end for a successful Baylor program. I hope Morriss can bring some respectability back to Waco.

 

are you insinuating that baylor has junior high facilities? if there's one thing baylor has done well, it's build good facilities.

but i may be really misreading your post.

 

It might have been me. That partial semester I spent at Baylor was in the Fall of 1992.

 

I hope so, too.

they may have...i don't remember. don't ask me...i just lived there. honestly, i never really got into baylor athletics. i grew up such a UT fan...i rooted for baylor vs. UT, but my heart was never really in it. i was much more concerned with houston pro sports and carrying that banner up in Dallas-heavy Waco. that, and my girlfriend...who is now my wife, of course.

 

really?? was that your freshman year?? did you live in a dorm??