I think that there should be two degrees of rape at least, as there are with assault, murder etc. For first degree rape it would be what most would traditionally associate with being raped, as well as people who drug someone and have sex with them. Second degree would be cases like this where the person who is raped does something that obviously brings it upon themselves. Did the girl deserve do be raped? Of course not. Did she bring it upon herself? In my opinion, yes she did. It just seems that a woman can entrap a drunk teen by showing him the goods and then when he makes his move, she can nail him for rape. Both sexes should be allowed to have rights. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com [This message has been edited by Hydra (edited April 02, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Hydra (edited April 02, 2001).]
So can I say that "she had it coming" means that it was "inevitable"? If a girl takes her top off in front of a gang of guys on the beach at midnight, it is inevitable she will get raped. I don't like the sound of that. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
I remember a certain candidate for governor having an election in hand -- and loosing for making a passing joke, to the effect of 'If a woman's being raped she might as well lay back and enjoy it.' I would hope that even now, we would be appalled at such statements. She might have contributed to the atmosphere that allowed this to happen, but she shouldn't have expected it, and she didn't deserve it. That's the type of expression we need to change. Something like 2/3 of rapes go un-reported, because the women feel they did something to deserve it, or are afraid of being ridiculed -- and we actually consider that an improvement. That's one of the saddest things about this situation. Pretty much every victim advocate group (and KHOU itself!) has pushed that the person being raped isn't responsible, shouldn't feel guilty, and should report the crime. The goal here is to catch the offenders, give them the appropriate punishment/counseling, and prevent future rapes. KHOU has pretty effectively damaged the ability of the police to investigate these crimes, and has set victim's rights groups back years in removing the guilt from the victim. Any other thoughts on KHOU's actions? ------------------ Stay Cool...
Clayton Williams. He was talking about bad weather. He said "Bad weather is like rape. It it's inevitable, might as well relax and enjoy it. Well put. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
It is probably silly to get into the "she had it coming" argument. We are all rational people who recognize that there are potential consequences to our actions (you drive too fast, you could be in a wreck and kill yourself or others) and that the irresponsibility of the victim is no excuse for the actions of the perpetrator (if you leave your door unlocked, it doesn't excuse the person who robbed you). It isn't much of an argument if we all can agree about that! ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
mmmmm no. You are twisting my words around. And it means quite the opposite. It would have been avoided if she would have used common sense. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
If you leave the door to your house open, are you entrapping a theif to come in and steal your television? That logic is flawed becaue you assume that the male has absolutely no control over his biological urges and his ability to overpower the female is justification. I agree that there have been cases where women "entrap" men by crying wolf over rape and that is awful. However, knowing how difficult, traumatic and frustrating the process can be and the fact that only about 25% of rape cases are ever reported to police, it is hard to believe that this happens with any sort of regularity. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
Assuming that her claims of rape are true. That has yet to be established conclusively (though it would appear that there are witnesses who support the rape allegation). ------------------ Houston Sports Board
That's a good point (as always), mrpaige. If her story is full of crap, then she is as well. An investigation by police will tell the tale. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
i don't know why you say she shouldn't have expected it. A random poll off the internet. All females. question: If you are on a beach at midnight in a car and you pulled your top off to a gang, what do you expect will happen? Female 1)"probably be raped or what not" Female 2)"they would want to sleep with me or something" Female 3)"I dunno ... I wouldn't do it " Female 4)"i'd get raped... " Female 5)"they will want more....and if I didn't give them that...probably rape" Female 6)"get raped" Female 7)"like I care" (I bet you wouldn't) Female 8)"I would kick their ass" (???? ok) These were exact answers with no prompt. I also disagree with your statistic. Does it include statutory rape? People you know? I don't think the media discourages reporting it. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
I don't think the police have ever questioned her claims. They had witnesses and evidence (including DNA). The first, and only, witness I've seen that questioned her story is the dufus who taped the incident, who 'forgot' to charge his battery, and sold the tape instead of turning it over to police. ------------------ Stay Cool...
If you're comparing men to an alligator that acts on instincts rather than rational thought then you're right. I'd like to think I'm a bit smarter than an alligator, but hey, maybe not. ------------------ "So you say you want some intelligent responses? I say give me something intelligent to respond to." -- Dimwits beware, B-Ball freak tells it like it is. Sing it bro!
Question -- have you ever been to Mardi Gras? Spring Break? Did you see any women flash their goods? Do you have any female friends/relatives/girlfriends that did this? Did you encourage them to not do this for fear they would get sexually assaulted? Was your first instinct to rape them? Do they deserve to be raped? This wasn't a deserted beach in the middle of the night -- and that's part of what's so pathetic. There were lines of cars and crowds of people -- even cops nearby -- and it happened anyway. I'm not saying she used good judgement -- teenagers often use bad judgement. But, she probably didn't expect it -- and she didn't deserve it. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Two things. 1. DNA Evidence wouldn't prove that there was a rape, only that there was sex. And 2. Just because other witnesses who claim the sex wasn't rape haven't come forward doesn't mean that they don't exist. The story itself says that "some" of the 30 witnesses say they saw the woman resist. We don't know what the rest of the witnesses say. I'm just reluctant to say that a rape was committed until more of the facts are available to us. (if they ever are. Since we weren't there, we can't ever truly know for certain what happened). ------------------ Houston Sports Board
In a sense, the guys are animals. (I guess we are all animals if you believe in evolution) Humans are capeable of the sickest thoughts ... I trust some of the most unpredictable animals to some humans. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
I'd like to think otherwise. I believe that if the "urge" to do something stupid hits, I can suppress that urge. If you liken the male to an animal for acting on his sexual instincts, then you can liken the female to an animal as well since so many female species are known to "flirt" with the opposite sex. I'd like to think of myself as being something beyond an "animal" in that I can reason, understand, override my instincts, etc. I'm going to go ahead and still disagree with you. The girl may have been wrong for what she did, but the guys were more wrong for what they may have done (provided the rape is true). ------------------ "So you say you want some intelligent responses? I say give me something intelligent to respond to." -- Dimwits beware, B-Ball freak tells it like it is. Sing it bro!
It was made out to be a small party on the beach, not with many people around. There would be a lot more rape at Mardi Gras if people weren't in large groups or the possibilty that they can be dragged off where nobody can see her. Majority of the people are good, and I don't think any of us, at least me, wants to 'rape' the first naked girl we see or say any girl deserves to be raped, so you can lay off those lines. If there were indeed a lot of people around and all these people witnessed this, she could have screamed for help. And if she could not have screamed for help, then all the 'witnesses' could have done something about it. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
From the Texas Association Against Sexual Assault: http://www.taasa.org/in_texas.htm The 1998 National Center for Victims of Crime "Crime Clock" reports that in America, 1.3 adult women are sexually assaulted every minute. A 1992 study from the same source showed that, statistically, 1 in 7 women was destined to be victimized by sexual assault in her lifetime. The Department of Justice (DOJ) Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), in its 1998 National Crime Victimization Survey, showed that there were 333,000 rapes/sexual assaults of individuals age 12 and older during the course of the year. The vast majority (95 percent) were assaults against women. Statistically this means that about 4 women out of 1,000 experienced sexual assault or attempted sexual assault during 1998. The study also displayed that rape continues to be the least-reported violent crime in America. Only 31.6 percent of these assaults were reported, compared to 57.6 percent of other aggravated assaults. Other DOJ statistics are available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Rape is one of the easier crimes to twist your statisics around. Define Rape. If you are hot and heavy with your girlfriend and you are about to get it on and she whispers no and she continues without a fight(and later enjoys it), that constitutes rape. What about statutory rape? There are lots of 19 year olds doing 16 year olds with consent, but thats considered rape. Also, can you rape your wife(forced w/out the (physical) abuse)? ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
