I am also thrilled with Martin, and I too hope he spends all summer working on D, but I think he needs to be lifting some serious weights this summer also. Let's see them guns, Kevin!
Martin's defense is not nearly as bad as what people on this board perceive. He fights through picks and stays with his man for the most part, gets a hand up on jumpshots, and has adequate anticipation. And even otherwise, he is good at picking off steals in the passing lanes. His main weakness defensively shows against the more physical guards who can bully him into the paint (and even in these cases Martin still maintains good defensive position between his man and the basket). Tyreke Evans showed this in our last couple meetings against the Kings when he was able to overpower Martin and convert short range shots over and through him. But I think with Yao or an improved Hill or some other interior defensive presence behind Martin, this weakness can be somewhat masked. I actually think Brooks' defense is a lot worse and all the more reason to make sure Lowry is resigned this summer.
How good is defensive win shares for measuring defense? Joe Johnson has a higher defensive win share. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/martike02.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html
the reason Martin's salary will be around half of what JJ's will be next year is because of Injuries and Defense. Both of which are purely reputation based. He is very light and bigger guards can post him up with ease but he does play the passing lanes well and gets a decent amount of steals. The injuries have alot to do with his style of play and size. He is 185 at 6'7". That is stick skinny for being that tall. If he puts on the muscle mass he says he plans on putting on in the off season, we could see the injuries slim down a bit and also he will be able to hold his own better on defense. If I hear about him going to work with Tim Grover though I might puke.
Wow, one must be a serious homer to think that Martin is a better player than Johnson. This stats fever is misplacing some of you. Better watch more games, less stats.
I am not sure how uch you watch the games, but he is terrible. I doesn't really stay in front of his man.
Never said it is. If you go by win shares, Martin's 3 year average(injuries and all) is 7.6, which is exactly the same as Johnson. As WS is heavily impacted by minutes played, that means Martin impacts wins more when he's actually playing. It also says that Martin is a vastly superior offensive player. Which was my point in the first place. That Johnson's offense isn't as good as Martin's. Who thinks that?
Agree with this, Martin is a better quick hitting scorer... JJ more of a creator for his teammates...
his body is much skinnier than both of those guys. ariza has 40 lbs on martin. durant weighs 230 now. yes the guy can ball, but the problem is how often he gets hurt. i do think it is a bit alarming to see his PER decline as his games played have declined over the past 3 years due to injuries when he should be in the athletic prime of his career. i still think he can succeed and get past the injuries, but he simply has to put on muscle.
This thread would be awesome if the topic was actually about praising Kevin Martin rather than attempting some half-assed and seemingly biased comparison to a player like JJ. That said, I'm pumped to have Martin and can't wait to see how he looks playing next to Yao and with any luck, you-know-who. Two of the biggest Rocket-killers in the world have been Kobe and B-Roy. It speaks volumes to our talent level if we have a SG that can at least statistically cancel out either of those guys and yet still probably doesn't fit the label of being our best player. That's pretty damn cool.
First of all, Iggy's not trash. He's a highly paid player and several teams were interested in his services at the trade deadline. If he could score on a comparable level to Melo he would be getting max money. But he's more of a second option while Melo is one of the top scorers in the league. And Melo's more of a complete player this year than he's ever been. A more appropriate comparison would be Melo vs. Wade. They're on a similar level, like I feel Martin and Johnson are. Melo's a great pure scorer. Wade's a great scorer, passer, and defender. I take Wade. Btw, can you run this analysis between Martin and Roy and tell us who's better? I'm horrible with stats.
we agree! when i have watched martin play D he has been good at staying in front of his man due to his quickness and he has fought thru the screens correctly. however, he gets absolutely abused by physical players on defense. i think adelman did a solid job of "hiding" him on defense, but there is only so much he could do. i also agree that his weaknesses will be covered up more by having a big man (hopefully 2 big men) back there on D. ...and like i've said a ton of times before i really hope the rockets get this guy on a good workout program in the offseason. his body WILL breakdown again if he doesn't gain strength and some mass. it's just unavoidable for someone like him who tries to draw as many fouls as he does. when you put yourself in awkward situations trying to draw fouls you are likely to end up on your ass. ....rant off...
That's fine, as long as you see it as Kevin Martin being a better fit than Joe Johnson. But a better player? No.
Yeah I agree JJ is a better overall player. However he's not 6 million dollars a year better. Not even close. He's marginally better, thats all.
I made the comparison because they are similar in terms of productivity, yet one is thought of as superior, by some vastly superior, to another. The premise is that Martin really flies under the radar even to Rockets fans. As for being half-assed, I've tried more complete comparisons before. Usually it ends up being a "too long, didn't read" type of a post that no one really reads through. It's just a message board. Can't expect Morey's internal scouting reports now can we.
I completely agree, Martin is an all-star who people don't even notice. K-Money is gonna tear it up with Yao, AB, and Bosh (hopefully) next season. People will start to notice him next year when we are in the playoffs, don't worry.
