[Kevin Drum] If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals

How can you seperate the 2?

Its seems disingenuous to try.

 

So what would have happened to blacks when slavery was deemed uneconomical?

I don't understand the argument that slavery would have just ended organically, ok and then what?

 

I agree with your sentiment, I think there is a lot of overreach and people just writing **** like these articles to get attention, I also think you are giving stuff like this a little too much weight.

Also in the last link that professor was not actually cancelled and he seemed to holding his own, I don't see how you think you are in danger losing your history.

And yes people are still trying to cancel MJ yet he is still here so take note.

 

"Something not very different from Slavery"

So what was the point of all this?

 

And the answer seems to be not really.

So No?

 

You are probably right. For me these are things I’ve devoted my life to and perhaps that’s what makes it so scary. The problem is articles like these have created lasting debates and effects within the music community. I will say this though - the idea of burning or destroying anything from anyone’s past is just not the way. If white people doctored other race’s histories in text books I don’t think it’s in the best interest of progressive values to do the same thing to them. We need to learn from the past. Mistakes and all.

 

Seemed like Britain and France were piqued enough to consider supporting the Confederacy if only to prop up cheap incoming cotton.

If you want to talk economics, it'd be like us buying unbranded low quality Chinese products despite the ever growing list of moral/ethical violations.

 

You mean the right moved way too far to win elections? Was that a typo?

 

Another dumbass thread. Thanks Os.

 

I understand.

I hate that you have to deal with this stuff.

 

I read through some of the articles and I have to say, I don't see where anyone was being "cancelled". Also, where did Phillip Ewell call for cancelling Beethoven?

Finally, the aggrieved music music theory teach at North Texas wasn't fired but was upset about criticism colleagues and a graduate student made alleging he was being called a racist and then filed a defamation suit against them. So if anything he is the one trying to cancel them.

This is what is weird about the attacks on cancel culture - now - if you criticize any historical figure, all of a sudden you are trying to cancel them? Why is the truth, or critical discussion now becoming cancel culture?

 

I appreciate that man and I meant this more toward something our collective white culture deals with, but at least we’re not perpetually afraid of getting murdered by police. Its important to keep perspective because there are a lot of people suffering much larger, realer injustices all the time.

 

One of the articles was literally entitled, “is it time to cancel Beethoven”. Regardless, I can absolutely see your point. It is a really good point about the professor. My experience was the insane amount of vitriol toward him for teaching a theory practice from the 1800’s. Should certain academic practices be erased because of the creator’s views? Even if it is of benefit to society on its own?Can I ask, specifically why is Beethoven attacked to begin with? What is the critical discussion involved and what truth do you derive from this?

 

The article entitled, "Is it time to cancel Beethoven" is using the title rhetorically and is a reaction to the criticism of Beethoven but never mentions actually canceling it or any one or any statement advocating the canceling of Beethoven.

I think the question I would pose to you, what is the difference of an attack on Beethoven vs a critical discussion? Is saying that Beethoven represents white culture an attack? Is it even saying that it's a bad thing? Or is it just a statement?

Looking at the critical quote: "“Wealthy white men embraced Beethoven and turned his symphony into a symbol of their superiority and importance. For others – women, LGBTQ+ people, people of colour – Beethoven’s symphony is predominantly a reminder of classical music’s history of exclusion and elitism,” Sloan and Harding write."

Ok, I'm not sure that is an attempt to attack or cancel Beethoven but rather explaining a perspective of non-white groups.

 

It's a bit more than criticizing historical figures.

A lot of cancel culture has nothing to do with critical discussion just look at what's happening to Rachel Nichols.

How is calling that professor a racist for teaching that theory a critical discussion?

 

They probably would’ve been freed but treated as second class citizens.

 

Even the guy who wrote the article says not much.

Would the south ever get rid of slavery or just not use it on as widespread a basis?