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Kerry Campaign takes the high road, refuses to question Bush's service

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    And 2003 is before 2004.

    http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml
     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You should try reading things every once in a while.

     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    and your point is? O'neill is a swiftvet, not a member of the bush campaign. is you have a reference to a member of the bush campaign dissing kerry's record, please provide it. as it is, the contrast stands, kerry has personally questioned bush's service, and his campaign website continues to do so.
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Ah, I get it, I didn't know this was your tack of the day. Keep riding it. It's an issue of critical importance, like this entire fiasco.
     
  6. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    What I want to know is why O'Neill came out and spoke so positively about Kerry's service in '96 and has now changed his tune. John Stewart played a clip of O'Neill stumping for Kerry's reelection campaign in '96 and O'Neill really lauded Kerry for his service.
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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    i hear that stewarts "interview" of kerry was sort of like rush limbaugh interviewing john ashcroft...not the toughest...
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
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    did kerry deserve his first purple heart? apparently, his own diary suggest not...

    --
    Diary refutes Kerry claim
    By Stephen Dinanand Charles Hurt
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    Published August 25, 2004

    John Kerry's own wartime journal is raising questions about whether he deserved the first of three Purple Hearts, which permitted him to go home after 4½ months of combat.

    The re-examination of Mr. Kerry's military record, prompted by commercials paid for by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the book "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry" by two of the group's members, continued even as Mr. Kerry stated that voters should judge his character based on his anti-war activities upon returning from Vietnam.

    A primary claim against Mr. Kerry by the Swift Boat Veterans is that Mr. Kerry's first Purple Heart -- awarded for action on Dec. 2, 1968 -- did not involve the enemy and that Mr. Kerry's wounds that day were unintentionally self-inflicted.

    They charge that in the confusion involving unarmed, fleeing Viet Cong, Mr. Kerry fired a grenade, which detonated nearby and splattered his arm with hot metal.

    Mr. Kerry has claimed that he faced his "first intense combat" that day, returned fire, and received his "first combat related injury."

    A journal entry Mr. Kerry wrote Dec. 11, however, raises questions about what really happened nine days earlier.

    "A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn't been shot at yet, and Americans at war who haven't been shot at are allowed to be cocky," wrote Mr. Kerry, according the book "Tour of Duty" by friendly biographer Douglas Brinkley.

    If enemy fire was not involved in that or any other incident, according to the Military Order of the Purple Heart, no medal should be awarded.

    "The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy," according to the organization chartered by Congress. According to regulations set by the Department of Defense, an enemy must be involved to warrant a Purple Heart.

    Altogether, Mr. Kerry earned three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star.

    A Kerry campaign official, speaking on background, told The Washington Times yesterday that the "we" in the passage from Mr. Kerry's journal refers to "the crew on Kerry's first swift boat, operating as a crew" rather than Mr. Kerry himself.

    "John Kerry didn't yet have his own boat or crew on December 2," according to the aide. "Other members of the crew had been in Vietnam for some time and had been shot at and Kerry knew that at the time. However, the crew had not yet been fired on while they served together on PCF 44 under Lieutenant Kerry."

    Mr. Kerry's campaign could not say definitively whether he did receive enemy fire that day.

    The newly exhumed passages were first reported by Fox News Channel in a televised interview with John Hurley, national leader of Veterans for Kerry.

    "Is it possible that Kerry's first Purple Heart was the result of an unintentionally self-inflicted wound?" asked reporter Major Garrett.

    "Anything is possible," Mr. Hurley replied.
    T
    he Swift Boat Veterans say that means Mr. Kerry is now backing off of his first Purple Heart claim, just as he has apparently changed his claim that he spent Christmas 1968 on an operation in Cambodia.

    "It's a house of cards," said Van Odell, one of the veterans. "What he wrote in 'Tour of Duty' and how he used that is nothing but a house of cards, and it's exposed."

    At a fund-raiser last night in Philadelphia, Mr. Kerry defended his anti-war activism upon his return from Vietnam, which also has come under attack by the Swift Boat Veterans, as "an act of conscience."

    "You can judge my character, incidentally, by that," he said.

    "Because when the time for moral crisis existed in this country, I wasn't taking care of myself, I was taking care of public policy," Mr. Kerry told his audience. "I was taking care of things that made a difference to the life of this nation. You may not have agreed with me, but I stood up and was counted, and that's the kind of president I'm going to be."

    The Swift Boat Veterans' claims and the political storm that surrounds them has dominated the presidential campaign for the last two weeks.

    The Center for Media and Public Affairs said that from Aug. 9 to 15, the first week after the group's ads were released, there were 92 mentions in major papers and 221 mentions in all news reports. By last week, Aug. 16 to 22, there were 221 mentions in major papers and 696 mentions in all news reports the center tracks.

    "The Swift Boat veterans commercial is the 'Blair Witch Project' of campaign ads -- an enormous return on a small investment," said Matthew T. Felling, media director for the center. "Everyone is talking about it, and no one can agree on where the line between fact and fiction exists."

    He said the commercial has become "a national player in its own right," nearly equaling Vice President Dick Cheney's 733 mentions in all news reports last week.

    Mr. Kerry himself is making personal phone calls trying to stamp out the controversy.

    On Monday morning, a day after former Sen. Bob Dole questioned Mr. Kerry's Purple Hearts on CNN, Mr. Kerry called the former Republican presidential candidate.

    "There's respect there. We were in the Senate together," Mr. Dole told interviewer Wolf Blitzer on Monday. "But we're talking about the presidential race, and I tweaked him a little on the Purple Hearts."

    And on Sunday, Mr. Kerry called Robert Brant, one of the members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

    A source associated with the veterans group and familiar with the 10-minute conversation said Mr. Kerry asked whether Mr. Brant knew about the group. When Mr. Brant said he was part of it, there was "kind of a silence" on the line before Mr. Kerry continued the conversation.

    The source said Swift Boat Veterans is considering sending a cease-and-desist letter to Mr. Kerry asking him not to contact their members anymore because it might be a violation of campaign-finance laws.

    In a speech at the Cooper Union school in New York yesterday, Mr. Kerry said the "Bush campaign and its allies have turned to the tactics of fear and smear."

    Asked by reporters about the Swift Boat furor later yesterday, Mr. Kerry said he's trying to focus on "the economy, jobs, health care -- the things that matter to Americans."

    Asked specifically if he has been calling Swift Boat veterans, Mr. Kerry said, "I am talking about the things that are important to Americans -- jobs, health care, how we are going to fix our schools."

    In last night's Philadelphia speech, even while defending his activities with Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Mr. Kerry called the criticism of his service "so petty it's almost pathetic in a way."

    But the issue is not likely to go away, in part because Mr. Kerry's defenders want their full say.

    A new documentary, "Brothers in Arms," will be released in a theater in New York and on DVD everywhere on Friday that highlights Mr. Kerry and the veterans who served with him, and filmmaker Paul Alexander said he found the veterans' stories very convincing.

    "What's remarkable to me is when you see the interviews in the movie, how consistent they are on what happened," said Mr. Alexander, who said he interviewed all the men who served on PCF 94, and interviewed them several times over several months. Mr. Alexander previously wrote "Man of the People: The Life of John McCain."

    He said the movie particularly sheds light on the incident for which Mr. Kerry earned his Bronze Star, for rescuing a Special Forces officer from the water under what he and his crew said was enemy fire.

    The Swift Boat Veterans, including Mr. Odell, say there was no enemy fire, but Mr. Alexander said after making the movie and talking with crewmates Mike Medeiros, Del Sandusky and David Alston, he believes there was enemy fire.

    "Mike described the mortar rounds that were going over the top of the 94, and David and Del described the sound effects -- specifically down to what kind of machine gun it was -- the AK-47," Mr. Alexander said. "Their description is so specific they're not mistaken."
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    That has absolutely nothing to do with the videotape, unless you're accusing Stewart of making it up.
     
  10. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    It wasn't even on the show where Kerry was on. It was on Monday night's show and you didn't answer the question. Let me repeat myself...


    What I want to know is why O'Neill came out and spoke so positively about Kerry's service in '96 and has now changed his tune. John Stewart played a clip of O'Neill stumping for Kerry's reelection campaign in '96 and O'Neill really lauded Kerry for his service.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    RM95, basso is going into tangential autoresponse mode, which appears to be purely mechanical.

    He zips back and forth between several arguments, all responding to different points regardless of what thread he's in: Swift Boat Liars not affiiated with Bush Campaign, Cambodia 50 miles away from Sa Dec, Kerry is a treasonous traitor in 1969, Kerry's purple heart self inflicted, Kerry's diary is wrong, Brinkley's book is wrong, Kerry's speech is wrong, Swift Boat Liars are infallible, Swift Boat Liars previous contradictory accounts aren't valid because, uh, they're just not, and my new favorite "comedian John Stewart didn't ask Kerry enough hard hitting questions."

    All in all, it represents one of the greatest flip flops in history.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    using his own words against him....that is low, Sam, even for you. ;)
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    and i've stood by those statements, although, in retrospect, calling kerry a "hero" was perhaps an unmerited bit of hyperbole, althogh he certainly deserves respect for his service in nam.

    what he doesn't deserve respect for is impugning the honorable service of the his fellow vietnam vets (or as the times prefers to call them, former vietnam vets) upon his return to this country, his possibly illegal contact with emissaries from N. Vietnam, and particulary for his demonstrated pattern of inflating his service for political gain. these are all legitimite issues in this campaign, particularly since Kerry has made is service such an integral part of his apparent qualifications for the presidency. i find it remarkable that in just a few weeks he's traveled from "bring it on!" on the banks of the charles to "no mas!" on the banks of the delaware.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. basso

    basso Member
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    too nuanced for you sam?
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Nope, I understand your flexbone offense perfectly.
     
  17. Chump

    Chump Member

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    you mean like this?


     
  18. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Respect that you and the GOP sure are loath to give him.

    If you read Kerry's statements from the time *gasp* in context, you will find that Kerry accused his SUPERIORS of war crimes. Those are the people that he impugned, not the soldiers. He did say that war crimes were committed (and who could argue with that?), but placed the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people in command, specifically the people who authorized the "free fire zones" where these war crimes happened.

    Whatever. How was ANYTHING Kerry did in his meetings illegal in the least?

    Kerry is a politician, nuff said.

    He continues to say "bring it on" when it comes to debating Bush regarding their respective service, a debate that Rove would never in a million years allow Bush to participate in.

    He says "no mas" to the lies of the people like the SBVFT(L).
     
  19. dugtzu

    dugtzu Member

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    well, at least you admit bush has taken the low road...
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    shouldn't this sentiment have gone in the dick love thread?
     

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