to be fair, part of that is because he's less willing to write off players he contends are still producing. Biggio is the big glowing example of that.
That's the most maddening part of this argument. Sure, Kent is playing extremely well right now, but so is Biggio to a little lesser extent. And he's making nearly $5 million less.
EXACTLY, EXACTLY, EXACTLY. we lost Beltran and Kent we gained Pettitte and a full season from Lidge...if you want to subtract Lidge from that equation, fine. but what if Lane ends up with power numbers similar to Kent's last season? does that change the equation for you? we're looking at a team right now whose best hitter is injured...and they're around .500 after 11 games. 11 freaking games. what RM95 and I...and many others...have been saying is just chill out. give it time. don't come in here after the third series of the season to say, "aha!!! see I was right all along!! this team sucks!!!"
Cmon RM....you know that statement, while correct in context, doesnt really describe the "state of the union" so to speak and a vast majority of the teams dont make the playoffs...nor do i care about the vast majority of teams
granted we are arguing about this in a Jeff kent thread so it may appear that i am pissed about the Bidge over kent decision....but i dont have such a problem with Bidge...I have a problem with getting rid of kent and not replacing the offense
NJ has been saying since the offseason that he was displeased with the moves being made. In the offseason, your response was "The offseason's not even finished yet! Wait until it's over before you judge. We don't know what's in store." Now, he's making the same comments he's made for months, with the regular season underway, and you tell him he should chill out and wait to see what develops. My question is, at what point is it OK for him as a fan to comment on his thoughts about the lineup and our postseason prospects?
very fair criticism. and i'm aware of it. my point is that Lane seems to be giving us, so far anyway (very limited sample size) what we got from Kent last season...but now we have better defense in both LF and 2B. i think this team can compete. you never know for sure in baseball, but i think they can compete. i will hold out hope until they're eliminated, because that's just me. but i realize other people will fall off earlier if they don't produce.
Not 11 games into the season. NJRocket, Sure, we're not as good as we were last year. I'm not sure we ever had a good chance of being as good, especially when Beltran basically told Taveras before the deadline that he wasn't coming back (see latest SI). While you were upset at our offseason and the lineup we're putting out there everyday, some of us believe that if we weren't going to resign Beltran, the best course of action for our future (which includes more than this season) was to go the young route. It hasn't proven to be a disaster yet either. Four of our six losses have been by one run (to be fair, two of our five wins have been by one run as well) and we're only a couple of weeks away from getting our best offensive player back. In the meantime, Clemens is showing no drop off and Backe is pitching very well. Oswalt is Oswalt and Pettitte is coming back very nicely. If we can stay in the race until June, there's a good chance that McLane and Pupura will bring in another bat or whatever it is we need.
The thing is (or one of the things anyway) that, while Lane is on pace for herculean numbers....and Clemens pitching as well or better than he did to start off last year....and Pettitte looking like the Andy of old (maybe better)...we, as a team, are still not looking great. PS- well said Sam...thx
I don't know that Biggio's been a big improvement over Kent defensively, but I acknowledge your point. I've been a proponent of Jason Lane literally for years, and I think he can produce in LF at a level not too far below what Kent did at 2B last year. LF is supposed to be quite a bit better offensive position than 2B, so moving Biggio back from LF to 2B does help in filling in that offensive gap. The power production in CF will be harder to make up for, although I believe eventually Taveras will fill in for much of the defense lost (he's still making some understandable rookie mistakes out there).
I'm as diehard a fan as anyone. When I don't like something, I will say it. Things don't ever change if people don't complain. Heck, in cities like Chicago I'm surprised the owner even puts anyone on the field. Those people would sell out all the games even if he had a 5 million dollar payroll. Sports are a business, and as customers.. if we don't like the way something is done we can complain about it. Some of us don't go for the idea that owners lost so much money etc... even if Drayton did lose all the money he claims. the value of the team has gone up dramatically to more than enough cover any losses.
Just to make it clear.. talking about this in my class and the fact that people often ignore it.. made me feel the need to post it. Teams say they are losing money, but often times don't talk about the fact that the value of their franchise is going up so rapidly.. 1992 - Drayton purchased team for 103 million dollars Forbes currently values the team at 357 million dollars So when considering the argument that he hasn't made money off of baseball, I take into account franchise values.
The last post was posted, not because I just felt the need to talk about Drayton.. but in response to nick saying that none of his net work had to do with baseball
Just because it's valued at something a) doesn't mean it will sell for that much and b) doesn't take into account the fact that he hasn't sold it yet.
Even if it doesn't sell for quite 357 million.. it will sell for more than 103 million. Sports teams are like an investment, each year they are going up and up in value so that in the end when they are sold.. the owner gets far more than he paid for it. Each year the team is worth more and more. Although the owner doesn't see the profit each year, I'm sure they are quite aware of the payoff they will get when they do decide to sell the team eventually.
but it does take into account that he can take equity out of the team if he wanted (and maybe he does)....sort of like a refinance on a house.
I mainly just don't like the term mid market team. We are worth the 11th most of any team. So while technically if you count 10th - 20th team as mid market.. then we are mid market... We are pretty dang close to being "upper third".. which sounds vastly different.
but often times by the way people talk.. you would think that he is doing us a favor.. like he was doing us a favor by increasing payroll etc because we are a "mid market team".. when in reality, I think we should always have a payroll that's top 11 or so. My point is he isn't doing us any "favors".. owning a team is big money. it's not charity work that the fans should be happy with whatever.
No, the way people talk about him, you'd think he gutted the team, never did anything to try to improve the team, and made us a cellar dwelling team for the duration of his ownership tenure. That, and raped your grandmother. I'm just trying to defend a man who by all accounts has been a good owner. I don't think he's a god or anything. My eagerness to defend him is triggered by the five posters who want to call him McLame and refuse to see any good that he has done here. EDIT: That wasn't very clear...I meant for every one person defending McLane, there are five posters who bash him.
