According to Forbes, the Astros make $10 million in income, while the Cardinals lose $4 million, which about makes up the difference in payroll.
gunn.... Rolen and Edmonds agreed to stay in St. Louis long-term (below market value) because that city loves baseball, they love the people who play baseball there, and they both knew that the situation was just too good to pass up. How does Drayton control that situation? Also, I know Edmonds had decent numbers in anaheim... above average numbers. Did the Cardinals think he would become the 40 HR, 100 RBI, 100 BB guy that he's been 3 out of the last 5 years, HELL NO... and there was NOTHING he did in his first 7 years in Anaheim that said he would all of a sudden start doing that with regularity. Hell... if the Angels had thought that, don't you think they would have asked for more than Kent Bottenfield?!? Also, I am not turning a blind eye to anything about Drayton... I agree that he (like most houstonians who thought we had a legit shot at Beltran) was played by Boras. Was there anything he could have done to stop that, call them out, and move on to another direction??? No... because then everybody here (including yourself) would have accused him of being a snake. You said "he didn't meet his asking price".... then why did Boras say (of all things) that they had actually AGREED financially? (which Drayton actually denied). It was apparently the other stuff that caused the hold-up. (which is a bunch of BS... how close do you really think we were... I say not close at all, otherwise they would have talked a little bit more than just the final day before the deadline). In the end, I've seen Drayton gone from somebody who refused to draft certain players because of their asking price, let home-grown pitchers like Kile and Hampton walk, and a guy who tried to pass the Astrodome off as a great place to play sports (only to flip-flop once the Oilers left)... to a guy who signs draft picks like Troy Patton out of HS, ensures that all of the stud home-grown players will be Astros for life (Berkman, Oswalt, and soon Lidge extensions), and who goes out and signs the big name FA's to try and remain competitive (Kent, Pettite, and the $100 million + he offered to Beltran). The guy offered over $100 million, and Beltran turned it down. Rolen stayed in St. Louis for 8 years $90 million, when he turned down over $100 million offers from the Phillies the year before, and the Yankees would have offered him a boat-load had he negotiated with them. You can blame Drayton for a lot of things... but its hard to blame him for trying to sign a guy who didn't want to be here in the first place. Why didn't Carlos allow us to come to his home? Why did he sign with the Mets the day after the deadline... don't you think if he was only considering the Astros, he would have taken some more time to think about other teams now that Houston wasn't in the picture? In the end, the Cardinals do spend a little more... but its only because they've acquired the players to do so via some great trades by Walt Jocketty, and in turn... those players agreed to stay there for far less than market value. Had Rolen tried to pull a Beltran and get top value no matter what, St. Louis WOULD NOT have resigned him... just like they didn't re-sign JD Drew or Edgar Renteria. The end of the story is that... all teams care about the bottom line, and all teams (besides the Yankees) sacrifice good players to do so. The Cardinals did that to Drew and Renteria, and the Astros did that to Kent (but not Beltran... the guy you're trying to sign has to actually want to stay here).
sheeshes....the season is started, forget the offseason, cheer for what we have now, when we get berkman back, we'll be ok....Lane is proving he can makeup some of the power that we lost....
I'm still trying to figure out how and why half of you call yourself ****ing Astros fans. Please, for the love of all that is holy, go ****ing root for the Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, or any other ****ing team. Of course, a few years into it, you'll be b****ing about that team's owner and the players and everything else except actually watching the game for pleasure. I just don't get it.
Well said RM95!!!!! I root for the uniform not the players. Whoever has the uniform on is who I cheer for...period. GO ASTROS!!!!!!!
wow...people whining about a former player doing well for another team...I thought I was in GARM for a second
RM - the fact that we ARE fans is the reason why we want a winning team on the field. This isn't little league where we really want the kids to have fun and see everyone play different positions. Some of us spend a lot of money on season tickets and expect a good product in return...every year....regardless of what our market level is compared to the rest of the league. We have a wealthy owner who, while MANY times has made a TRADE midseason to bolster our chances, doesn't really like to part with a buck. Fact is, the trades were exectued by a guy he supposedly help drive out of town because they didn;t see eye to eye on how they should build a team. I, and other ingrates, could turn to you homers and say, "how the hell do you call yourselves Astros fans if you dont really care that we have a horrible lineup and dont have a very good chance at making the playoffs? Go root for the Pirates and you can be happy that we are giving young guys a shot and not spending money" just like you do to us. Its no different.
It's called supporting your team through good times and bad. As a franchise, despite no World Series rings, we've had a great run over the last decade. That success has earned the team as a whole some ****ing respect, which most of you don't show at all. And whether it's little league or MLB, it's still a game. One that has been made more enjoyable to me during the last decade thanks to our owner, our management and our players. Instead of consistently ****ting on them like many of you do, I, along with precious few here, decide to respect them.
ok..i'm thinking there's a difference. i disagree with you on this team. and i think you probably suck some of the joy out of being a fan for yourself. but we can disagree on the lineup. but when you're arguing with someone who starts at the premise that the owner is a snake...someone who lies without thinking...well, it's hard to even engage that. there's no common point for discussion, because it comes back to some "truth" to the other guy that trumps every argument you make. if you believe they got played by boras, that's fine. but i don't think you' believe McLane's offer to Beltran was disingenuous or illusory. from what you've said, your problem with McLane in that deal was that he got played..that he was naive. But not that you felt his offer was just trash thrown out there to look good to the public, knowing it wouldn't be taken or something like that. So if you believe he genuinely made that offer, which would have been among the richest in league history, it's hard to argue that he's a cheapskate after the fact.
and i agree with this, too. baseball is still fun for me, particularly when my team is competing down the stretch of the season. for MOST of my life, the astros didn't do that, save a few rare exceptions. in drayton's era, it's been something they've done nearly annually.
BTW, can someone show me proof, with quotes from Hunsicker, that he was forced out? This is just another one of the anti-Astros person's typical made up argument. Also, just because you want a winner regardless of market level doesn't mean that there isn't a market level that the Astros are in. They're not the Yankees. I'm not understanding why some of you can't or won't understand the economics of baseball. Oh yeah, blind hatred. Sad.
I support this team as much or more than anyone on this board...whether its watching games or buying season tickets year after year. I respect the players as much as anyone.....but if its time for a change, then I'll complain that the guys are too old, too slow, or just plain not good enough to be here and that we need to go out and fill some holes...like other good teams do who have wealthy owners. You seem to have the same view on the Astros (which is fine...its your kool aid...stir it as u like) that has driven fans here nuts for years....and that is that you would rather be loyal to some of the players who have given you pleasure in the past as opposed to keeping up with the Jonses and doing what you need to so. The thing is....we are in the "what have you done for me lately" age in every major sport....not the "what did you do for me for the past 7 yrs" age. If we, as a team and as fans, choose to be ok with the former, then we will watch the playoffs and enjoy some exciting regular season games from time to time......but if we go out and approach things as they should be approached in this day and age of free agency, perhaps we will continue to have success.
We're 11 games removed from being one game away from the World Series. I'm sorry if that's not enough time for me to come to the conclusion that we're not "keeping up with the Joneses". When I say the bad times, I'm not saying we're in the midst of a bad time. It's way too soon to tell whether you doomsdayers want to say we are or not. And if/when we ever are, I'm going to wait and reserve judgement until I see how long and what the team does to get out of it. I'm sure that will take more than 11 games too. The vast majority of MLB teams do it the same way the Astros do.
It's not up to me to prove an accusation with absolutely no proof of truth as false. If you're going to make an accusation, you better back it up with facts.
