Everyone says we need to either get a good power forward or another small forward. I dont' know about the small forward, but I don't really think we need another power forward. Check out Othella Harrington. He has blossomed into a very good player, and is getting better. Most of us were real sad to see Othella leave in the Vancouver trade. Kenny Thomas reminds me a lot of Othella. The main difference is that Kenny Thomas, in his first season, probably already has the talent that took Othella a couple years to possess. Some people want an 18 pt. 10 reb. power forward. There aren't a whole of those out there, and they aren't very easy to get. Plus, if you score 18 and grab 10 boards while shooting a good percentage, then you are probably a star already. And the point I'm trying to make is that we don't need a star, nor do we have the funds to obtain a star. We have a ton of young players whom I consider to be very good components of a successful team... Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Drew, Cato, Rogers, and Kenny Thomas. Throw in Walt Williams, Hakeem, and a healthy Tony Massenburg, and we have 10 capable players. THERE ARE 2 WAYS WE CAN GO. We can trade and lose part of this young nucleus. Or we can wait 1 year, keep this young nucleus as they get better, and when Hakeem retires, we'll have enough money to ADD to this nucleus instead of replacing it. I say we should wait 1 year. Plus, there is no reason to say that Thomas CAN'T become a star in this league. He has shown a variety of good post up moves, and has proved himself to be very versatile. A big guy who can rebound, has really good range, and can post up. AND IN HIS 1ST YEAR. WE don't need another star. We have Francis who will become gary payton and jason kidd in one. We might not NEED another star, but it would be nice to have another one around right? Then we can just wait 1 year until Hakeem retires. Then, like I said earlier, we should make our move.
I agree with what you said. But I just dont think Kenny can be the starter for this team. He is too small for the power forward spot. Maybe Im wrong or something but thats the way I see it. I would like to have a defensive power forward that can score, rebound and block. Doesnt have to score alot but just be active and help out. ( KENYON MARTIN)
On the contrary, alsksnoman, I believe we do NEED another star. We are already set at the pg and sg positions, and pretty much set in the center position with Cato(were not likely to be able to get anyone that much better than him anyways), so that leaves 2 other positions. We do not have a Sf to really depend upon. It would be great to get one. But it would also be great to get an awesome PF. I love KT and I really want to keep him, as our back up PF. Do you really want to have KT match up defensively against Webber, Malone, McDyess, Baker, etc. Cmon, we would be at a big matchup disadvantage. So another PF would be welcome.
He's too small? He's taller than Barkley. You want a defensive power forward who can score and rebound? I can't think of many of those. It really seems like many people on this board just don't have realistic expectations for an NBA team. Thomas, I think, will develop into an above average starting PF. Let's turn our attention to positions that we need filled: SF and maybe even C (I think that Thomas is a better player than Cato).
Francis3, How big is Martin? I know he has a lot of skills, but I didn't think he was a very big power forward type.
Barkley was just Barkley, wont find anyone like him anymore. But have you seen Kenny go up against the other top power forwards in the nba? I know he is young but I dont think he can handle them. He just doesnt have something in him to .. (whats that I say)... hang with the BIG BOYS. He is a nice player and all but the power position spot has to get better and I think Kenny Thomas just isnt enough.
Let me ask you this: What will happen to Carlos Rogers if Kenny T. is our BACKUP power forward? The only thing that I could possibly see happening is a moving Rogers to the 3 spot. That way, we will have a severe mis-match at the small forward position. We could go with our big lineup that people have been talking about. But it would also be great to get an awesome PF. I love KT and I really want to keep him, as our back up PF. Do you really want to have KT match up defensively against Webber, Malone, McDyess, Baker, etc. Who do you really want to match up against all those people. There really aren't that many people that can hold Malone, WEbber, Mcdyess, and so on. IN fact, there aren't any at all. There are people like Theo Ratliff, and some other people that give them a tougher time scoring. But that's it. Thomas isn't a BAD defensive player. I think he is pretty decent. The thing about Thomas is to work his defender OFFENSIVELY, thus getting him tired. And if you truly are worried about stopping the skinnier, quicker people like Mcdyess and Garnett, then I say Carlos Rogers would be a fairly good choice. He is tall, with long arms, athletic, and quick. He can give them a tougher time. I really think that we are pretty solid at all positions. Another acquisition or two, which I'm sure that we're going to have(especially with Hakeem's retirement) will push this team over the edge of talent. THAT IS, if we keep everyone we haver right now.
6'9. People say 6'8 or even 6'7. But 6'9 is his real size. His game is similar to Alonzo Mourning. Almost identical but martin does better things. Quicker and has a better shot.
Haven How are you ganna get a center better than Cato. Please, Id really like to know, cuz quality big men are a rare commodity. And I agree that we could use a Sf, but if we could get our hands on a dominant PF like Kenyon Martin or Brian Grant or someone like that, then Im all for it. I really dont like the idea of KT having to match up agsinst elite PFs nite in Nite out.
alsksnoman, There are players that can match up nicely with elite PFs, like Martin and Mason and Brian Grant, from off the top of my head, those players would do a wayy better job than KT. And KTs method of playing D is getting them tired of playing d on him? Weak. We ould not get far in the playoffs with KT at the starting PF position, period.
I didn't know that Mason was a good defender... Anyway, what do you suggest we do with Carlos Rogers if we do get some kind of "better" power forward? Like I said earlier, we COULD put him at the small forward, but that's still not his natural position. The reason I'm so big on Thomas is that there aren't too many people that have the low post game that Thomas has at this stage in his career. I know that maybe Thomas won't be able to keep up with the likes of Webber, etc. but he can cancel them out with his OWN offense. Just like we're worrying about Webber and Mcdyess, the other team should be worrying about Kenny Thomas. And it seems, CriscoKid, that you want another power forward for a primarily defensive reason. That, I agree, you might be able to obtain. But a defensive threat, AND a good offensive player would be very hard to get. Anthony Mason is kinda old, Martin's offense isn't anything special right now but it will get better, and Brian Grant(if he's a free agent after this season) will be strongly pursued by other teams. Plus, I still think that KT has better offense than even Brian Grant. It's been a good thread...
OH YEAH, I forgot to mention something. What about Elton Brand? I just went to the playa profiles on NBA.COM and it says that both Kenny and Elton are 6-8 and weight around 260 pounds. If they are the same height and weight, and you think Thomas to be a bad defender, then I guess you must say that Elton is also a bad defender. But Elton is the cornerstone of the Bull's future franchise. I agree that Elton Brand is better than KT, and therefore can do more work offensively against his opponents. But there's no reason to say that KT CAN'T do that also. His offensive game is continually developing and will get much better with time. I just don't see how you can say Elton Brand will match up against elite pf's and say that Kenny Thomas can't. Granted, Elton is better, but Kenny is NOT that far behind. Kenny's game will also continue to get better.
Let me just say that I think KT is a good player, and if at all possible i wouldnt want him traded cuz he would be an ideal backup. And he could do a decent job of starting during the course of the season. In a pinch he'll have to do, and I won't feel too bad seeing him start. But if an opportunity presents itself to land another PF, the Rockets should jump all over it. Unlike our other positions, the pf and sf positions arent "locked" for the future, they could be improved. Personally I would prefer to get a Pf cuz I would like the Rocks to matchup better in the playoffs. Oh, and I like Mason. He would be a temp solution, and I wouldnt give up much for him, but I think he can play good D and decent O. Ive seen him do a lot of good things, like shut down dream(Finals), handle the ball when all his point guards went down(pretty effectively too, though he got really winded), and at times, dominating the game defensively and offensively. Mason does have some bright spots, but I doubt the Rocks will strongly go after him. Hopefully they can getsomeomne better.
I don't think Brand is any better then KT. What are you basing your assumption on? KT has only just started to play, and he is not the focus of the offense. I think KT has more game then Brand, he has an outside shot, has WAY better hops, and is close to if not equal to Brand in post game. The only think lacking in KT's game is starting. DaDakota
Brand is a better player than KT. Brand kinda reminds me of Karl Malone. Granted, Brand has had the ball spoon fed to him, but he has produced great numbers. Cant realy say KT is better till he is put into the fire like Brand has been. Brand would be at a serious disadvantage too if he had to go against some of the elite PFs in the west in a playoff series. Bulls are gonna need a lot more help than brand if they are gonna do anything.
I guess you are right Dakota. So, if KT is better than Elton Brand, who is going to be a "star" in this league and the CORNERSTONE of a franchise, then why do we even need another power forward? MY POINT EXACTLY.
When the draft was taking place it was said that the difference between Kenny Thomas and Elton Brand is that Kenny Thomas didn't have several of his teammates drafted in the first round (or was it the lottery?). Of course, that was solely based on their college days. I've not seen either of them play enough to really make any kind of judgment. I'm not sure that anyone has seen Kenny play enough to know whether he is our starter of the future or not (I'm not sure the coaches know that at this point). I can say this, I don't think his size will have much to do with it. The guy played center in college, and excelled. I certainly don't think the guy will be a liability on defense. He can rebound, shoot from the outside, and pass the ball (a BIG plus in my opinion). Scott Layden (ex-Jazz VP) said, "This guy has a nice little knack to pass the ball around." I know none of that necessarily means anything, but I think Thomas has a lot of skills that most coaches only wish they could get in a power forward. We'll see what he can do with them in the NBA. I hope a lot.
There haven't been too many PF's below 6' 9" that have had outstanding NBA careers (recently). Barkley, Oakley, Rodman immediately come to mind. But Barkley is probably one of the most athleticlly gifted 250pouners to play any sport, Oakley is as strong as an ox (as is Mason), and Rodman is just another unexplainable abberation as well. I think Brand has shown he will have a very good NBA career as well, as much as I was a skeptic. But Brand does have arms closer to that of a 7 footer and has a quick spring in his legs that Thomas just will never have. I think Brand will be able to hold his own against the best PF's in the league, though I don't think he will ever be quite all-NBA caliber himself. This is not a knock on Kenny, but I think he will at best be a good NBA 3/4 tweener because of his modest physical assets. The best he could possibly be is another Larry Johnson or Anthony Mason (does someone think he has the potential to be a strong asd these guys???). More likely he will be another Othella, Rick Fox, Clarence Weathersoop, Corliss Williamson, Gary Trent, Danny Fortson, George Lynch, Jason Caffey or the like, who are great back-ups and always fill out important pieces to a roster, but are rather marginal players as starters. That said, I think he is (about) as promising a young front court player as we have (Cato overall is maybe just a notch more talented overall, dispite KT having more offensive potential). Thus I don't think it is impertive to draft a PF any more than a SF or C, so I think we just look at the best front court players we can get. Plus, Kenny might be able to play some small forward anyway, the way Corliss and Johnson and Fox do--if we happen to add a more classic PF type. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited February 21, 2000).]
When snowman says we don't need another star, I think he means we don't need another superstar. Of course we need another star. Don't fool yourself. But, Kenny Thomas can be a star. Superstar like Francis? No! In my book, the difference between a star and a superstar is superstars have ways to beat double-teams. Stars demand double-teams, but can often be stopped by them. To me, he is already better than Othella. Othella had to be taught moves. Thomas invents them. Come on...only a Rockets fan would compare Thomas to Othella. The comparison itself, makes Thomas sound like he's limited in skills. I for one, am never going to compare the two again, except to explain how Othella could be a good back-up for us. Thomas has unteachable skills, tremendous speed on his moves for a big man. Too me, he just needs a summer to get cocky. A dash of cockiness will do wonders for the man. It makes you ignore the defender and focus exclusively on where you are and where the rim is...because that's all that matters when you are a low post star!! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 21, 2000).]
