Chicago had Grant and D-Rod at the power positions, unquestionably the top 2-3 defenders at their position when they played for the Bulls. Grant was a decent offensive player as well. So with Pippen (who was a great defensive small forward), and throw in a little Jordan, and either Grant/D-Rod, they had a very good interior defense despite a below average center. This aspect of their team is very much overlooked in discussions of their championship runs. I do believe if we have to resort to a starting Cato/Thomas combination at the 4/5 we will probably never be good enough to compete for a title. This is not a knock on either player (Othella is in the same class as Thomas too), but as a combination I just don't think they collectively will be tough enough on both sides of the ball. That said, I think Thomas and Cato are more promising front line people than our young SF guys we have (I wouldn't play SA at the 3 unless we had true twin towers back their to solidify the middle). So in my mind the Rockets just need to try to identify and add the best young front court players they can get—regardless whether it is a 3,4, or 5. Those other guys might be adequate in plugging 1 hole or maybe 2 in the roster. Thus KT may be an adequate starter, Cato may be an adequate starter, and Los or SA may be an adequate starter at the 3, but they will not form a championship-level frontline no matter how good our guard play is, in my opinion. And I am not saying we will need a to round out our roster with future superstars on the frontline--but atleast some guys a notch above in talent than say a Kenny Thomas or Los, like the borderline all-stars types such as the OTs, E. Campbells, Vlades, Laimbeers, S. Elliots, B. Russels, and B. Grants (of last year) of the game. Ideally Kenny or Los would be a valuable back-ups and we would only have to start 1 or none of them. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited February 18, 2000).]
Gang, Robert Horry was our starting 4 during our championship years. He was not a premier player. Mario Elie was the starting 3 for the 2nd championship run. FAR from a premier player. You only need 2 stars and the rest complimentary role players. KT fits that bill, and Francis is one of the necessary stars. I think our biggest need is at the SF position, if we were going to get another star, it is here I would do it. Don't judge Thomas by his ROOKIE numbers, he is learning...and rapidly might I add. DaDakota
I agree with every positive thing said about Kenny Thomas in this thread. If it was possible to only have the best players per position on one team, it would have been done by now, and games would not be fun to watch anymore. Kenny, Steve, Cuttino, Shandon, Kelvin, Hakeem and Carlos should all be kept(for now, not necessarily for ever). Hell, so should Walt and Bryce. All of these players have proved their stuff. Now if any of these players start playing like they don't care - well different story, but in the mean time JUST LET THEM PLAY. Either that or trade 'em all and fire the coach! (sorry whoever I stole that one from )
Maloney looked pretty good his rookie year as well. I just don't see the anything special in KEnny. He's going to be a good role player in the NBA, but that's it. And the Rockets need someone more than a role player right now, they need some rising stars...the only one they have right now is Francis (maybe Mobley).
DaDakota...can you remember OT? Even after OT, Horry was not a starting four, nor was Elie a starting 3. They got thrown into those starting roles out of desparation for 22 glorious games because Herrera went down and Max went Mad.
KT is MUCH better than Othello... especially when you compare their rookie year. One thing Hakeem has mentioned about KT, and I agree with him, is that KT has excellent footwork. He also already has better range than Othello HAS NOW AS A SEASONED PLAYER. Robert Horry was our starting small forward in '93-94... for our first championship. Our line-up was: PF-Thorpe SF-Horry C- Hakeem SG- Maxwell PG- Smith In 94-95, I think you're right... he might have started at the 4. I don't think Kenny will be a superstar... but I feel he may become a force in this world. Bottom line: would most teams in this league LOVE to have a 15-10 guy at the 4? The answer, imo, is clearly yes.
sir scarvajal, If the Rockets were able to land a SF with adequate offense and outstanding defense (Pip in his youth), would that be enough for a championship run? Start Francis SA Mr X Carlos Cato Bench Cat Drew KT Big Man (A better T Hamilton) --------------------------------------------- TheFreak, It is my honor. Mango
good point Mango. Generally speaking, IMO, the SF position is the least impact position of all, especially on the defensive end. What is a "prototype" SF anyways?! The best SFs always bring something from the other positions. Pippen/Rose/Odom/Hill are point forwards Carter plays the baseline block Rice is a distance shooter Is Mashburn a prototype? Is Sprewell? Is Elliot? Who is the prototype? My feeling is, the star 3s often played 1,2,4 positions in college, because it is easier to dominate from those positions on the court. The "prototypes" are the role guys who knock down the open shot and slash through seams exposed by other threats on the court. So, that would be Elliot. As Mango says, is an Elliot going to bring us a championship. Can't Shandon pretty much do what Elliot does? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 18, 2000).]
Mango, if you plug a young Pippen with our team (say you include a character transplant, marked by "+") you would have say a starting five of Francis, SA, Pip+, Thomas & Cato. The bench would include Mobes, Drew & Los, plus some relatively cheap decent vets to back-up the 4/5 (e.g., a guy in the mold of like a Carr, Willis or OT of today). I indeed would be very interested to see where this team would go, I might even stop talking about trades for a while, unless an obviously good deal came along. That team might have a real chance. This is why I really like the potential of McGrady, even if it costs us Mobley and/or Drew, because after all they likely won't be starting anyway. I also like considering drafting a Morris Peterson or Arceneaux for this role, though I hope they measure out to a legit 6'6" or taller and/or have the body to be an everyday three. However this isn't the only direction I think we could go to give us a championship caliber team. If we could add a young PF/C who is big, plays great D, and has a little more O than Cato, I would like the look of our team too. I don't want to seem greedy so I am not talking about a Duncan or a KG or a Webber quality--but maybe a poor mans version of such a player. A player like a young Horace Grant, a McDyess, an Elden Campbell (with a heart transplant), an OT or a Rasheed Wallace. With another big body and defensive presence, I would be fine going small at the 1-3 with a line-up of say a Francis, Mobley, SA, Campbell+(+ is for heart, remember), and Cato, with backups of Drew, Thomas, Los, plus maybe another decent backup veteran small player. I think this team could have a legit chance as well as Francis and Mobes develop. It is this kind of line-up is why I am interested in Ratlif (who might develop into such a player) and draftable 4 or 5's (Martin is ideal if we can get him, or maybe Swift or the E. Thomas or L. Woods, or the like). In summary, I don't really care if the next piece is 3, 4, or 5, but I want a guy who athletically can add another dimension to the team. Then I would be a lot happier kind of waiting to see what will happen with the nucleus unless a great deal came along that we couldn’t pass up. Heypartner, I just saw your post. Yes I think a guy like Pippen, Elliot, Mashburn, McGrady or say Bryan Russell is just a little bit more of an everyday three than SA is. Whether it is because SA has shorter arms, a couple less inches in height, or a different build (though SA seems pretty cut), my thinking is he is not as effective rebounder or defender against the bigger threes out there. Maybe it is because if he plays the three, Cuttino the two and Thomas plays the four, then we are really small all over. But you 1) add a bigger guy at the 4 (e.g., Theo Ratlif); 2) move Shandon to the two (Hello T-Mac); or 3) have Shandon at the three but get equivalent size at the two (say Morris Pederson), in any case we seem a lot more formidable in terms defensive and rebounding because of a little extra size. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited February 18, 2000).]
So, we seem to agree that the Rockets aren't that far from being a competitive team again. A solid defender who can put down some open shots. My preference is a SF. I like "The Show", but I think of him as more instant offense that could come in with the second unit. If he could be snagged late first or early second round and use a higher pick + a package to get a bit higher spot for the solid defensive SF, I would be thrilled. Who is considered the best college SF that is adequate offensively and outstanding defensively? Mango
"Was Chicago worrying about matching up with Ewing, Robinson, or Olajuwon when they were winning 6 rings? Will other teams in the league need guards that can match ours if they want to compete?" No, but Houston is not Chicago, Francis does not dominate the game like Jordan, Rodman is a better defender than Cato, and (like him or not) Pippen was a great complementary player to Jordan. Will other teams in the league need comparable guards to compete with Houston? Yes. With the exception of maybe LA -- who now has the most dominant player in the game...and a pretty good complementary player.
Defintely Morris like Francis3. Imagine an Odom, Pippen, someone like that. However, there are two HS kids that might come out: Darius Miles and Gerald Wallce. They are also the same mold, future potential Odoms. ------------------ The Mall Kid is Back!
University Blue...I got your superstar/complimentary player tandems, right here... San Antonio Duncan/Robinson Seattle Payton/Baker Phoenix Kidd/Robinson 76ers Iverson/Kukoc Sac Webber/Williams Detroit Hill/Stackhouse maybe Mil Allen/Robinson/Cassell Isn't glaring how the failure of all but SA stems from their lack of defense. Scoring tandem's is not as important as DEFENSE/REBOUNDING and sound offensive systems!! Quit playing fantansy ball. We need Defense!! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 18, 2000).]
Along the Lines of Pip and Odom. Sounds good enough to me. --------------------------------------------- heypartner, You just did that better than I planned on doing it. Mango
He is better than a younger pippen. He can do things double pippens stats. Mango - This guy can rebound like 12 a game and is athletic, can score , blocks alot and has alot of steals. But bad thing is that I really dont think he will enter the draft.
I just checked in to some background on Terrence Morris. Is he a legit 6' 10' with the skills of SF. If so, I would have to add him to my short list. He doesn't look to be as good offensively as Morris Peterson, but may have the length to be a better defensive SF. Any thoughts on comparing them and other SF's out there. While I agree another defensive presence on front line is most important, I want a guy who is extremely efficient when he has an opening near the basket (either in the fast break or when created by the guards). Of course the next James Worthy or Pippen would be perfect. On the other hand, a guy like Robert Horry--who just never seemed to have great hands, body control, or be that natural around the rim (he either needed to slam or shoot a wide open jumper)--is OK but less than ideal.
