yup after SAR leaves a team, the team becomes better look at the Griz look at the Blazers he's simple not a leader. he's just a stats guy. he's mo taylor with some more moves.
The Kings biggest problem this season is probably SAR's biggest problem, lack of energy and emotion on the court. SAR is a solid player, but his game can just lull you to sleep with it's boringness. He's a very smooth player on the court, but his game is very low energy and it lacks creativity. And that's what the Kings have lacked this season, the energy and creativity on offense that they have had in previous seasons. KT may not be the individual player that SAR is, but I do think he gives them the energy that they lack when SAR is on the floor.
I never said SAR was a leader. For that matter, KT is not a leader either. Didn't Pau replace SAR at Memphis? Didn't they also bring in a new coach who finally got everyone's attention on that team? In Portland, they have Nate McMillan now. He got Miles' attention before he got hurt and has Zach Randolph playing well. IMO, Mo Cheeks isn't 1/2 the coach that McMillan is. That's why Portland is better this year. Let's see how the Kings do with KT as the starting PF. I have a feeling they will start overhauling things there so it may be hard to guage KT vs. SAR. Peja will be gone before the end of February and Adelman may not last the season.
"Look at the Griz?" Okay, let's look at the Grizz: the 2001-02 season, the one immediately after Abdur-Rahim was traded from the Grizzlies, they won the exact same number of games (23) as they did the season before, and finished dead last in the Midwest Division, just as they did the season before. The season after that, they only won five more games, and still finished dead last. So obviously, the team didn't magically become better without Abdur-Rahim. The Grizzlies didn't become a better team until Hubie Brown taught them how to play, two years after the fact, so them getting better really had nothing to do with the presence or absence of Abdur-Rahim. "Look at the Blazers?" Okay, let's look at the Blazers: in the eighty-six games that Shareef Abdur-Rahim played for the Blazers, they went 34-52; that works out to a .395 winning percentage. Not very good? Stipulated, but in the twenty-nine games since he's left, they've gone 10-19, which works out to a .345 winning percentage... Both numbers stink, to be sure, but unless they've made new rules since the last time I took a math class, 39.5% is still better than 34.5% And, I notice that you conveniently avoided mentioning the Hawks, who actually got marginally better while Abdur-Rahim played there (from 25-57 and a 7th place Atlantic Division finish in 2000-01 to 33-49 and a 6th place finish in 01-02, to 35-47 and a 5th place finish in 02-03) and got worse when he left (back to dead last in their division after trading Abdur-Rahim, and haven't been out since). I do agree with you that Abdur-Rahim is not a leader and, until proven otherwise, I will also agree that he is just a "stat" guy, who puts up good numbers on bad teams. But don't misrepresent the teams that he played for as being somehow held back by Abdur-Rahim, because those teams were piss-poor when he got there, and they continued to be piss-poor after he left. tinman? You should change your name to strawman...
dude, did you watch the TnT when Reggie Miller bust out that stat that SAR has not been to the playoffs after 700 games? Reggie was like 'wow!'. you know after 10 years in the NBA and not EVER going to the playoffs. its not coincidence. Its not coincidence that you get traded or demand to be traded. The Grizz sucked when Bibby and SAR were together (remember that?) now they are reunited and they still suck. something fruity about that.. mr citrus
tinman, if nothing else, you add flavor to the forum. Even when your points are not valid and get blown up by facts.
Yeah... definitely strawman... I never said that it was a "coincidence," and yes, I saw that statistic on TNT. In fact, I was aware of it before Abdur-Rahim became a King, as it was one of my personal reservations to the Kings acquiring him. However, comma, that doesn't prove your argument. In fact, it doesn't have anything to do with what you said; what you said was: Quit trying to use a Straw Man and address the fact that you can't prove your argument: you claimed that the Grizzlies got better when they got rid of Abdur-Rahim; they didn't. You claimed that the Blazers got better without Abdur-Rahim; they haven't. What? You mean that a team whose third-best player was Michael F. Dickerson wasn't any good? Really? I am shocked, strawman! Shocked, I tell you!
Uh, The Grizzles made the playoffs. yes quit putting the vodka with your orange juice. They didn't make it right after he left, but they got MUCH better players because he was NOT THE MAN, especiallly by how much he wanted money wise. Dude, The Blazers have Zach Randolf, SAR was angry that he came off the bench because Zach was better. Dude, he JUST LEFT last year, give the Blazers the end of the year, and you will see progress. Im destroying you citrus, i'm not afraid of your gang either.
Marv, After 3 rounds I have the fight as Tinman - 2 rounds Citrus - 1 round Citrus, had Tinman against the ropes in the second round but Tinman came back with a stunning combination in the 3rd round. Round 4 is coming up...
Yeah, we'll have to give a TKO to Tinman if Citrus continues to type in that NOK Hornets aqua blue color.
Citrus, did you realize that 700 games without being to the playoffs and losing every season is a staggering stat? Someone needs to tell SAR that every team he's playing is not trying to throw the season to get Reggie Bush. Go Texans! SAR=Tony Banks!
Marv (Ming), You are correct... Citrus keeps dropping that left hand and Tinman is beating him to death with that right jab in the 4th round.
That Kings win over the Clippers (by 17) with Cassell shooting 1 of 12 and SAR on the bench with a broken jaw must have blown tinman's mind. WORLDS COLLIDING!
notice that they win when SAR was out. tough times for the clips, but they'll be back stronger, like obi wan.
The Grizzlies made the playoffs two years after the fact, strawman; your argument is invalid. If the Grizzlies finished in last place the last season that they had Abdur-Rahim, and then the year after they trade him, they still finish in last place, and then the year after that, they still finish in last place, then getting rid of him didn't make them better! Wrong. They got better because they fired Sidney Lowe and hired Hubie Brown. The Grizzlies team that won fifty games in 2002-03 had virtually the same core players as the team that won twenty-eight games the year before and finished dead last in the Midwest Division, with the exception of James Posey. Your argument is a straw man because the Grizzlies didn't actually get better after they traded Abdur-Rahim. And even with all the better players that they acquired two years after trading Abdur-Rahim, they were still in the same place that they were when they had Abdur-Rahim: last. After getting rid of Abdur-Rahim, they acquired Gasol, Battier, Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright... and they still finished in last place. The year after that, they added Earl Watson, Drew Gooden (who they later traded for Mike Miller) and Gordan Giricek. And you know what? They still finished in last place. If they had gotten better without him, then they would have shown some kind of progress in those two years after he left. Like, oh, I don't know... a sixth place finish, at least. If getting rid of Abdur-Rahim allowed them to get better players over the subsequent two years, then why didn't they show any improvement of any kind until after they signed Hubie Brown to coach them? Because the Grizzlies didn't get better after trading Abdur-Rahim, that's why; they got better after signing Hubie Brown to be the head coach, and one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. The Trailblazers stink, with or without Abdur-Rahim; he didn't make them better, but he didn't make them any worse, and they damned sure haven't gotten better since he left. The Blazers are going nowhere fast. No you aren't; you haven't even proven your argument. You said that Abdur-Rahim is not a leader, which I agree with. You also said that he is a "stat" guy, which I also agree with. But then you said that the teams that he's played for got better after he left, which is wrong, and the foundation of your argument is a straw man: 700 games without a playoff appearance, while indeed a "staggering stat," is not proof that his teams got better after he left. And, in fact, the W-L records of the teams in question prove otherwise.
Slim Citrus wins this bout by a KO. Somebody get the stretcher for tinman. Mercy mercy mercy. Slim Citrus, you debate very well. I hope we get into one down the line.
So if McGrady goes down and the Rockets go 2-0 with some scrub at SF does that make them better then T-Mac? Using your logic Mutumbo and whoever manned the center spot is a better player then Yao Ming.
