One thing I've noticed in here is that when discussing Collier, his value seems to rise considerably when we're trading him to other teams. For most of the last year I have heard of guys wanting to dump him, but so far in this thread he has been described as a good young player, a frontcourt player with potential, etc. and alternatively as good as or better than Montross and Bradley. Interesting...
While I would be estatic to get him, I don't see Toronto pulling the trigger on a KT for Mo-Pete trade. Bradley and Jefferies seem like more realistic possibilities. How about KT and Cato for Jefferies, Bradley, and Hakeem. We rid ourselves of Cato's contract and potentially having to pay Kenny big money next off-season for Hakeems expiring contract and 2 solid role players who will not be asking for big money any time soon. Ming, Bradley, Griffin, and Taylor should be enough at the 5 and 4. Hakeem can rot on the bench for all I care. If he's sulks and whines too much, just release him. And Jefferies pretty much solves the backup 2 problem.
1) The Raptors have a $55m payroll and are currently over the Luxury Tax limit. 2) Kenny Thomas will be a qualifying offer FA next summer with a salary of only $2.2m. 3) Virtually every team in the league will be able to offer Kenny Thomas their MCE next summer. 4) The Raptors would have KT's full Bird Rights meaning they can match any offer for KT. 5) If any team offers KT their MCE and Toronto is forced to match, the cost of KT goes from $2.2m to $6.7 (the ~$4.5m MCE match + the $ for $ Luxury Tax of about $2.2m). Given the above information, why would the Raptors want Kenny Thomas when they can keep Mo Pete for 2 more seasons before he becomes a QO FA? IMHO, if there are talks, it must be Micheal Bradley (and a pick). The Rockets are also approaching LT range and will have the same contract problems for KT as mentioned above. If you are going to play/showcase Mo Taylor (the second highest paid Rocket after Rice) and you need PT for EG, will you have minutes for an undersized PF who will cost more than Kelvin Cato if you are forced to pay the LT for him (KT)? Collier is a team option next summer and Bradley is not a QO FA until the 2005-2006 season. This just makes the most sense to me.
For all we know, it could be for Alvin Williams. He has good size (6-6) for a two and handles quite well. I think this would make Mobe's happy, since the two are buds. My money is on Jeffries, unless it's Bradely with a first rounder. I don't think CD would be dumb enough to make it an even swap.
Peterson was the player we SHOULD have drafted the year we got Collier. He is not a star but he is pretty good at everything and is the kind of player who shines on good teams - a la Rick Fox in LA. KT has a lot of heart and some awesome footwork, but he should be a backup in the NBA because of his size and lack of rebounding ability. He is a perfect 6th man. I would be thrilled if this trade came to pass. I don't know anything about Bradley so I can't comment on that.
I doubt that it's Williams. My guess is that he'll be their starting PG. He was second in the NBA in assist/turnover ratio last year & averaged 5.7 apg, while Childs averaged 5.1 apg. Let's take a look at both team's players by position. Toronto PG: A. Williams/Hunter SG: Carter/MoPete/Jackson SF: Murray/J. Williams/MoPete/Jefferies PF: Davis/J. Williams (undersized @ 206 lbs.)/Bradley C: N'diaye (8 games in 2 years)/Huffman (rookie)/Montross (injured foot)/Olajuwon (may not play this year) They are extremely thin at the 4/5 positions. They could move Davis over to the 5 slot, but that just leaves them with Bradley & an extremely light J. Williams to man the PF spot. Houston PG: Francis/Moochie/Brown/Maddox SG: Mobley/Torres SF: Rice/Nachbar/T-Mo PF: Taylor/Griffin/KT C: Ming/Cato/Collier Rice will only be here for 2 more years & I suspect that he'll be traded after this year, unless he returns to his old form. That'll leave us thin at SF, unless T-Mo makes major strides in his game this year. Cato is going to lose his starting position & if Griffin is able to play the center position, Cato could drop further in the rotation. That would make him the highest paid 3rd string center in the NBA. Collier will be an adequate 3rd string center & I believe that he'll step up his game this year. Looking at this indicates to me that Houston & Toronto could help each other out by moving a player or two from a log jammed position & acquiring a player or two to fill a need area.
The only comparison I am making is that they both suck. I really don't care about what color skin they are. If anything, you're stereotyping me, thinking that I am stereotyping the two players. I'm sorry that they both happen to be white, and you feel the need to bring that up. Would a better comparison have been Cato and Bradley? After all, it is more PC...
I don't know how you can say Collier sucks, the guy has been injured. And Bradley is still developing, there are so many cases of players not putting up good numbers their first year or so in the league before blossoming, so saying they suck is jumping the gun. As for the Raptors, I can't see that team being a playoff team next year. They're banged up, they don't have much size, they don't have a bench, and their cap is screwed up. Where are the Raptors fans that ran over here ripping the Rockets and talking about the Raptors being a future dynasty, guys like RaptorDynasty. Their only hope to make the playoffs is if Vince Carter carries them. And it isn't the same thing as last year, when Carter got injured and they still made the playoffs. Last year was lightning in a bottle, and they were pretty much healthy. Truthfully we can get more if we trade KT in package then what Toronto can offer, outside of trading the Rocks Mo Peterson.
Getting Bradley doesn't help the team at all. Where is he going to get minutes at with Griffin,and Mo-T on the team at PF and Ming/Cato/Collier at center. KT at least can play as a backup 3 and can be an insurance at the 4 spot for this year. Chris Jefferies missed a number of games last year at college with a cartilage tear in his knee. We can't afford to have any more players with potential injury problems on the team.
Okay, here's a trade that should make the Cato/KT lovers & Taylor/Collier haters happy. I don't know or care about the Raptor lovers. Houston sends MoT/Collier/T-Mo/future #1 pick to Toronto. Toronto sends MoPete/Bradley/Dream to Houston. Toronto could slide Davis over to the center position, put Taylor in the PF position, & have T-Mo backing up Murray/Jefferies at SF. They'd also dump Dream's salary off the books. Houston would start Griffin at PF, with KT backing him up & Bradley filling the role of 3rd string C/PF. MoPete would start at SF, if Rice isn't ready to go, & Dream would spend the rest of the year on IL. Houston's new lineup would be: C: Ming/Cato/Bradley/Dream(IL) PF: Griffin/KT/Bradley SF: MoPete/Rice/Nachbar SG: Mobley/MoPete/Torres PG: Francis/Moochie/Brown(IL)/Maddox(IL) With no #1 pick next year, that'd be a pretty deep team to run with. 2 deep at every position & 3 deep at a couple of positions. Homerism is alive & well on this board.
I like your creativity, but I think Mo T is more valuable than Mo P... What did you think about my trades?
I can't believe any of you all would even think twice about trading KT for Morris Peterson. That trade is ridiculous, I'd do it in a second. Did you see Mo in the playoffs and the end of last season. He's still improving and is a good player. Kenny is a good player, BUT he plays the 4 and we already have two other PFs, plus I don't believe he can produce more than he has. He'll demand MoT money when it's time to renew also. Mo can play back-up SG and SF. He's young and is pretty versatile. I don't know about Bradley, but KT & Mooch for Mo, we should be ALL OVER that trade.
