Kenny.....shoots an impressive 39.9% from the field in his first year!

Launch Pad,

Cato has played only 172 games; he has improved; he will improve.

haven,

1. KT doesn't have a 7 year deal for 42 million dollars.

Cato can only play up to his skill and experience. His salary doesn't affect his production. If you want to complain about the salary, criticize the Rockets for paying a 8.7PPG, 6 RPB player $42 mil over 7 years.

2. KT has better moves and footwork

Those moves and his footwork put him in much better position for a high percentage shot, right?

3. KT is younger

I've got a 3-year old son, let's praise that potential. Seriously though, Cato has 110 more games under his belt. 74 @ 13.6 MPG and 43 @ 12.7 MPG. In all those games he averaged 3 FGAs. KT may be younger, but clearly Cato isn't a seasoned veteran.

4. KT is a MUCH better passer

Yeah, he really tore it up this year with his 1.6 APG.

I agree, KT is a talent and may develop into a better player at some point than Cato. My point is, if you are going to dog Cato's career year, take a look at Kenny too. The bottom line is, Cato didn't hurt his team offensively this year, but KT did. Does Cato have things to work on this summer? You bet. Does Kenny? Yes. I'm just tired of all the harsh criticism Cato receives while turning a blind eye to KT.

Given a chance with the Rockets, I think both of these players can develop into solid contributors to a championship team. I don't know that we'll ever get to see that happen, though.

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Cato's salary is extremely applicable to any criticism of him... BECAUSE HE STOPPED PUTTING FORTH EFFORT AFTER HE SIGNED THE CONTRACT. Sorry for the caps, but the entire situation disgusts me. I mean, it was too obvious for words.

Anyone remember a PF who took a significant salary reduction to allow for a certain SF to play in houston... and then he played his heart out? I do. And I can't forgive Cato for being paid SIX TIMES as much and not playing with energy and effort.



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Actually, I agree with you there Tb-Cain. I've been defending Cato on this board for a while. But liking Cato's potential and liking KT's potential are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.

Carry on with your mantras.

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You actually believe that during game situations Cato considered his financial security and CHOSE not to box out, rebound, block shots, run the floor, steal the ball, shoot for a higher percentage, dunk with more authority, play more minutes, dive after loose balls, and dish out assists?

I suppose he CHOSE to turn the ball over and commit personal fouls so he could get taken out the game and ponder his millions.

The Rockets saw him dominate in EXHIBITION games and locked him up long term. If you're unhappy about that, blame the Rockets, not Cato. If you put a backup center into an exhibition game against opposing players (who may or may not even be in the league when the season starts) and he dominates, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from that.

Simply because you pay someone $42 mil over 7 years doesn't mean you go from 3.5PPG and 3.5RPB in 1999 to 20PPG and 10RPB in 2000. Seriously, what kind of numbers do you think we should have reasonably expected?

I don't think the Rockets signed him to a $42 million / 7 year deal for his production in the 1st year. They know he's not a polished gem, but a rough ashlar.

Cato isn't responsible for other people's expectations. He can only do his personal best. If you expected him to score 12 and rebound 10, then you're probably disappointed. That doesn't mean those were reasonable expectations for Cato when he only played 24 MPG.

If you look at Cato's career stats, year-by-year, I think you'll say he made good improvement. I also think you'd be interested in what kind of production he could give you in 36 minutes, compared to 24 minutes.

When I take all things into consideration, I'm very optimistic about Cato's future. If he remains a Rocket, I'm thrilled, and I'm looking forward to the results of his offseason workouts.

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I think the compalint about Cato is that he doesn't work hard. This is obvious and is the main reason that he sits on the bench for half the game. If he hustled and played smart it wouldn't matter if his stats are bad. Rudy doesn't care about that, but when a 6'3" PG consistently out rebounds your 7'Center then you have a problem. Kenny isn't the best, but he is a rookie and he busts his ass. If hisplay didn't improve next year then we can dog him. I would much rather watch a team that consistently out-hustles the other team than watch players who don't box out, are scared to dive for a ball, and b**** at the officials all game. If you want to defend a player then I would suggest picking one that actually gives a sh*t.

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My complaint with Cato is based on the fact that he has skills and could easily be an above average center in this league, but doesn't show the work ethic to become one. Don't show me someone's stats for 24 minutes a game and claim for them to be adequate. We need a center and even when we were playing with 8 players, Cato stilled managed to play about 24 minutes. Why is that? Because when he was in there he was being out rebounded by our point guard. I know that their is a lack of quality big men in the league and I would like to keep Cato and try and develop him into a starting center. The problem is that he might not want to. It's very difficult for people's personalities to change. Especially when his contract is guaranteed, and all of his "posse" tells him he's the sh*t. I've seen him out so I know the leaches he hangs out with. Like I said before. Don't defend someone that doesn't give a sh*t. I'll go ahead and bet you that he pulls a Kemp over the summer and shows up next season out of shape.


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haven,

Don't look at statistics before and after he signed that contract. Look at the effort he displayed. There's a difference.

The great ones make it look easy. You're right, why take into consideration his productivity when we can complain about how it looked.

As for working with coaches in the off-season, he's spoken some fine words: now let's see him enact them.

So now we can't even trust his word?

Even if he does work, he wouldn't be the first "work out warrior" to ever exist. Working out during the off-season doesn't guarrantee game-time intensity.

Great, so if he works on his game, so what? If he doesn't, he's complacent. Nice.

Cato needs to be taught how to box out and rebound. People assume because your tall you can rebound. There is technique involved, which is what I assume the coaches will emphasize in his workouts.

It's a two-edged sword. People complain, "Don't get into foul trouble." Then they complain, "Where's the intensity?"

Cato said he didn't WANT to start.

Big deal. Any number of things could have factored in to him making that decision. Your boy Barkley made the same choice once. Cato was struggling in his first starting role and was looking for answers. He moved on, so should you.

...his attitude became complacent once he was financially set.

He's so complacent that he's spending his summer with the coaches to improve his game. Isn't he still signed to that contract? Why would he want to put forth any effort this summer if he's complacent?

...apparently Cato's "love of the game" simply isn't enough.

Enough for what? Again, I ask the question "what should we have reasonably expected Cato to do this year?"


BTW, I'm not irrational, blind or absurd. I suppose if I had nothing left to cling than my perception of a player's attitude, I might have to criticize someone who disagreed with me as well.

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I havea new theory that might explain why we constantly b**** and complain about our 4 & 5 positions.

We've been spoiled by having a Hall-of-fame front court for many years. And when it wasn't hall of fame, it was Kevin Willis displaying that he could score 25 points and grab 10 boards when he needed to fill in. Or, it was Role players like Chucky Brown, or Mark Bryant doing just ENOUGH to fill the matchup against other power forwards. I'll be there are plenty of teams such as the Clippers, Warriors, Sonics... (i don't have player's names..)-- and many teams on the East who have big men who haven't lived up to what they've been paid. It's our first time in a LONG time, and part of the "rebuilding" year. We used to b**** about our guards getting out-played or out scored. Now we had a trio-tandem that scored 86 points against the league's finest.

Give Cato and KT a chance, I say twenty games into the next season and see if they've improved. If not, we MIGHT be able to continue this talk.

Elie17

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Rocketsauce,

he has skills and could easily be an above average center in this league, but doesn't show the work ethic to become one.

I haven't heard any negative reports about Cato during practices. I do know he plans on working with the coaches this summer which seems to contradict your statement.

Because when he was in there he was being out rebounded by our point guard.

True, we have great rebounding guards which takes away from Cato's numbers. Sure he can fight his own teammates for the ball, but that doesn't really help.

It's very difficult for people's personalities to change. Especially when his contract is guaranteed, and all of his "posse" tells him he's the sh*t. I've seen him out so I know the leaches he hangs out with. Like I said before. Don't defend someone that doesn't give a sh*t.

I'll defend who I like, but I doubt because you've "seen him out" that you can tell he doesn't "give a sh*t" about the team or his play.

I'll go ahead and bet you that he pulls a Kemp over the summer and shows up next season out of shape.

I don't think there's any reason to believe he'll show up out of shape.

TheFreak,

I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for 11-12 pts, 8 boards, and 2.5-3 blks from Cato next year, especially if his minutes go up to around 30 a game.

I'd have to agree with those expectations and wouldn't be suprised to see him closer to 13 pts, 9 boards. Of course, this is assuming he's on the team and getting starter minutes. If Dream returns and sucks up 24 minutes, then look for continued Cato bashing.

[This message has been edited by Tb-Cain (edited April 27, 2000).]

 

Elie17, I am one who think's both Cato and KT have promise. However, if you ask me if I think we should stand pat with our group of young front-court players because they might develop into decent starters I would say no way. Basically, you would be hard pressed to find 1) another team with a comparably weak front line right now ; 2) another team with comparably modest front-court potential . Cato and KT are the best we got in terms of talent, thus they are the players worth the most to us. But I would call neither a "sure thing" and if either has to be included to acquire either a more talented (KMart) or more skilled (BGrant) front-court player we do it in a second. I see no logic in not trying to address our greatest weakness--our forwards and centers.

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I will say that since i've been reading this post that perhaps I have overstated my opinion a bit. I like Cato but I just don't think he has the mental make-up to be an above average player in this league. As for his work habits I have heard that Rudy and CD are less than enthused about his habits to date. And another thing. It's not enough to work hard. You have to be smart enough to learn. I didn't see any improvement in Cato's game throughout the year. I think Cato has peaked and an 8/6/2 player is what we have and that's what we'll have to live with. I think he's getting a little old to expect a breakout year from him.

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I think Elie#17 is absolutely right. We are so used to having our front court dominate the league, that when we are in the situation where they don't dominate we complain. We complained that the backcourt was **** last year (which it was) we b****ed about them, but our front court rocked and made up for it. Now our front court sucked this year and our backcourt rocked. So we complain about our front court. Obviously we want to have the best back and front court, but name a team that has close to the best backcourt as well as close to the best front court? It is possible but not that probable. We have to be happy that our backcourt kicks a$$ and hope that next year our front court improves enough to provide support for our dominate guards.

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C'mon, lets get Chuck that ring.

 

Now name me a team that won a championship with a below average front court (most important) AND a below average back court (not quite as important but still important). Name me a team that won a championship without at least 1 all-star front court player.

When we won the title in 94, Kenny, Max, Sam and Elie were not the best in the league, but they could hold their own. Our back court was even better when traded for Drexler. We later acquired Barkley--but we had some complete holes in our guards that did us in every time. The lesson is you must be balanced. I can't think of an NBA championship team--maybe not even a team to make to the Finals--within the last 20 years that wasn't balanced.

I am not confident that Cato and KT (again I think they are "promising", but promise and being confident that they will be first rate players are different things) can form the core of an average--let alone good, front line. Just compare what we have to what just the medicore teams in the west have (Denver-McD,Lafr,Posey, Dallas-Finley, Ntw,Ced, Grizzlies-Rahim,Oth) and you will see we don't stack up in our front line relative to the rest of the league. It has to be addressed somehow.



[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited April 27, 2000).]

 

"Name me a team that won a championship without at least 1 all-star front court player."

I don't believe Detroit had an All-Star on the frontline.

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"Okay KG, next time down, you give Cousin Billy his turn, then he'll give Uncle Joe his turn, then we'll give Shaq a turn."

-Rudy T, in the Dream Team 2000 huddle

 

Both Mark Aguire & Bill Laimbeer were frequent all-stars. James Edwards wasn't but he was darn good too. D-Rod and Salley played all-star level defense then as well.
Detriot, as with the 80's Lakers teams, were lead by guards but they were tough all over as well.

I would say the team the closest Championship or even Finals team to being imbalanced would be last years Spurs team. But then again, that team probably would have been beaten by any champion in the last 20 years, though obvously we will never know that for sure. We will have to ask Mario in about 20 years how his SA team would stack up againt the 94 or 95 Rockets. Personally, I think Hakeem would have practically shut down Duncan and they would have to double Dream on defense leaving our superior 3 point shooters to take them apart. I don't think it would have been a contest.


[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited April 27, 2000).]

 

Sir, there's a difference between being 'frequent all-stars' and having an all-star on the frontline on your championship team. I believe heypartner pointed out that Aguire didn't even start towards the end of the year on the 2nd championship team. Bill Walton was an MVP once, but for the '86 Celtics he was a 6th man. 'All-star caliber defense', what is that? I took your question to mean whether or not there was an all-star on the '88-'90 Piston frontline. By the way, if Laimbeer was a frequent all-star, there must have been an even bigger shortage of big men in the 80s than there is today.

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"Okay KG, next time down, you give Cousin Billy his turn, then he'll give Uncle Joe his turn, then we'll give Shaq a turn."

-Rudy T, in the Dream Team 2000 huddle

 

Rocketsauce,

I can respect everything you had to say in that last post, although I disagree. This is Cato's 3rd year in the league (1st with significant playing time) and I think he's primed for a breakout year. Being only a 3rd-year vet, I don't think we can go so far as to say he's too old for one.


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...which is why he's working out with the coaches in the offseason - because he gives a ****. If the Rockets asked him to work in the summer and he said "no", then you would have a valid arguement.

That 6'3" point guard happens to be a rookie phenom and also gets a lot more minutes than the 7'0" center (officially listed as 6'11").

If Cato sits half the game because he doesn't work hard, how do you explain Kenny Thomas sitting half the game too. I guess he wasn't busting his *** as much as you thought, or could it be Rudy plays matchups?

BTW, Cato's scowling at the officials was pointed out to him, and he did lighten up towards the end of the season. A credit to his willingness to improve all aspects of his game. That's not very consistant with someone who doesn't give a ****.

OK, maybe I was reaching on that one, but at least I addressed it.

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Tb-Cain- You're irrational. Don't look at statistics before and after he signed that contract. Look at the effort he displayed. There's a difference. As for working with coaches in the off-season, he's spoken some fine words: now let's see him enact them. Even if he does work, he wouldn't be the first "work out warrior" to ever exist. Working out during the off-season doesn't guarrantee game-time intensity.

Are you blind? Did you really not see the difference in Cato's attitude before and after he signed that contract? As for playing time, Cato said he didn't WANT to start. I like players who don't MIND coming off the bench (one of my favorite things about Mobley is how he never whined about starting), but to not DESIRE it? Ugh.

As for "choosing," about whether to play hard or not based on the contract, that perspective's absurd. People don't "choose" to have a good attitude; rather, his attitude became complacent once he was financially set. That's hardly abnormal, in the basketball world, or in the business world. The economic incentive to work hard was taken away, and apparently Cato's "love of the game" simply isn't enough.

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[This message has been edited by haven (edited April 27, 2000).]