I've seen texxx defend lay for lying to his employees, saying that was his job as ceo to pump up the company. and I'm pulling out the race card, because texxx is usually always over black criminals, but he posted an article criticizing us for jumping on lay. as a matter of fact I'll tell you what dude, find any post of texxx defending a black man accused of some crime and I'll take it all back.
i agree with you there Max. i'm sure there's alot of "good" people on this board who illegally download music. i'm not saying it's on the same level as what Lay did, but if you're d/l music, you're a theif too. just to a different degree.
no..that's my point. they're not. it's not as if ken lay is this evil, menacing dark lord who never did anything to help anyone ever in his life. it's much more complex than that. it would be nice if we could just label "good guys" and "bad guys." but it doesn't work that way.
MadMax, he did a lot of good things with Enron's money, but doesn't the fact that much of Enron's money was made by ripping off investors and employees sort of negate that?
Sure it does. Ken Lay was a "bad guy". He ruined the lives of thousands of people for personal gain. The idea that it was all some sort of accident that he couldn't control is a crock. He was found guilty and was going to jail where he belonged for a long time if not for the rest of his life. Ya know, I'd feel different about him if I believed that he was in any way remorseful, but all I ever saw was stuff about how he actually had to sell some of his property and, now, about how stressful this all was on him. He was a thief on a massive scale. The end. Regardless, I got involved in this thread based on the monumental lie that he, through his corporation, "contributed $100 million" to building MMP. Complete BS. As I said earlier, one WOULD have to resort to lying to rehabilitate his image. I have absolutely ZERO qualms about labelling him a "bad guy".
some of Enron's money was made by ripping off investors...no doubt about that. but this is what i'm talking about. this extreme one way or the other. with Aces you get this, "he's a great guy and everyone else was an idiot." with others you get, "he was evil. he was satan incarnate. he tortured small children and squirrels." neither of those are accurate. the truth is, as it is for the rest of us, in between those extremes. he certainly made legitimate money in his career. and he did donate lots and lots of personal and corporate funds to worthy charities, non-profits and public ventures. i'd venture to guess he gave more legitimate dollars to charity than you and i will in our liftetimes. he also lied and stole. i'm not gonna tell you he was a great guy...or that he was an evil menace. he was human. he was trapped in his own greed...of his own making.
I would say yes. And it's not like he wasn't taking care of Kenny boy first... he didn't exactly lead a monk-like existence or volunteer in a soup kitchen on a regular basis. It seems to me that any "good" he did came well after he and his buddies were taken care of with the money and stuff that money buys, well after they greased the political wheels so they could make more money, and well after they lied to their employees. I understand your points Max, but this is not a normal life and can't be considered as if he were you or me. He had the lives of hundreds of people in his hands and with that responsibility comes a more stringent evaluation of his actions. Not to mention that it's fairlyt clear he manipulated markets and corrupted and damaged our government at the local, state, and federal level. Those actions diminish us all.
So you're pulling the race card on me. Wow, how big of you. That's the easy way out, pgabriel. The reason I posted the OJ pic in the D&D was because Rocket River said that it's good to be rich and white when it comes to getting off in trials. I posted 3 counter examples where the people who got off weren't white. Dude, you have issues. You constantly seek to label me a racist, but you're wrong.
you are assuming that you and i are incapable of being swallowed up by greed. of letting it control us. congrats if you can absolutely, positively say that about yourself. i'm not so sure.
Just saw on channel 13 news that his body will not return to Houston. Instead, he'll be cremated and his ashes will be scattered in Colorado. Hmm.... I'm think somewhere in the Bahamas, a 64 year old man with a suitcase full of money is living out the rest of his days.
I'm just calling it like I see it. you have no problem saying some black guy should go to jail but as soon as ken and the boys at enron get in trouble you become the big defense lawyer. you still bring up o.j. after 11 years but I have the issues? let it go dude.
I'm going to be the bigger man and step away from this childish rant with no evidence to back up its accusations. The Hangout doesn't need to be sullied with your personal agendas, pgabriel.
Ken Lay's widow releases death of photo to quiet any talk of him still being alive... Possibly not work safe
This probably sums up how I feel about it. A man dies and people are celebrating like he was Hitler or something. I have no doubt that he had a stake in the shady practices that were going down at Enron, but it's also been noted that he did a lot of good for the community. And he and his family, like the people that lost so much, suffered from severe emotional strees and anguish (ableit for different reasons). And that stress most likely led to his death. It's sad that his life took such a downward spiral and led to this conclusion, sad that his legacy will probably be remembered for one and only one thing and yes sad that he contributed to the financial ruining of many lives. Did he deserve this fate, or something far worse; that isn't up to me or anybody else to decide. Its in God's hands now; fact it always was. And I will say, that I don't care what the company ENCOURAGES you to do; anybody who wraps up their entire lifesavings in one investment is just asking for trouble.
