Max are you saying that we as humans don't have the right to judge other humans unless we are perfect? If that's the case, then why do we even have a judicial system (and lawyers )? Personally, I don't think Lay is (was) as bad a person as Skilling and Fastow. Enron was totally legit until those two were brought in. Enron did some good things like build power plants in economically depressed parts of the world etc even though they were bad investments. Once Skilling came in and brought his Mark to Market accounting with him, it was the beginning of the end IMO. That being said, nothing Skilling and Fastow did from the time they were hired to the very last days of Enron was done without Lay's approval. I would feel a lot worse for Lay and his family if he had JUST ONCE apologized to his employees or accepted responsibility for what he had done. He never did that.
Make a cast molding of a body, pay off a couple of doctor friends, take some photos, and then the quick, convenient "cremation." This guy was smart CEO... he had lots of friends and money. It can be done. Plus, with him "dead," the criminal charges will not stand and the FEDs cannot touch any of his assets unless they go after him in civil court.
No, I'm saying we're not in the position to have our failings damage society on Ken Lay's scale. From what I know, the most you could do is screw over a few clients and cause your family some hurt, the most I could do is cause my family some hurt, disappoint my coworkers, and egregiously ignore safety issues that could result in harm to a handful of individuals. None of the things that we have the power to do (or not) is going to have the societal impacts Lay's actions did.
that's not because we're incapable of them in our hearts, though. that's a pretty legalistic defense if you're gonna condemn another man.
earlier i misunderstood your position a bit...so i disagreed that we agreed to disagree. after i came to better understand your position...i disagreed with it. so now i agree to disagree.
With great power comes great responsibility, and Ken Lay was a failure. Unfortunately, most of those with great power won't/don't have the strength of character to use it responsibly. Large societal problems are almost always the result of a human inability to handle power with nobility and grace. What could be more shameful than utilizing great power simply to fill your checking account? How unimaginative and petty. That being said - people release their bowels when they die, and I bet Ken Lay expelled the sloppiest, most rancid turd that has ever smeared a designer bed sheet.
Enough with the moral relativism. We are all a product of our choices. Ken Lay had a lot more options to do the right thing in his life and chose not to do so and *never* accepted responsibility for his mistakes. If it makes you feel like an exalted Christian to lump Ken Lay in with the rest of us, fine. I don't accept that. Do I condemn him as much as I do Josef Stalin, or George W. Bush, or Bud Adams? No. I just refuse to give him the kind of charity he never gave to anybody else.
moral relativism would tell you that there is no right or wrong. i'm not saying that. i clearly said he did lots and lots of wrong. you are the first person to ever call me a moral relativist, though! exalted Christian?? geez...did i offend you that much? where in what you read did i exalt myself even a little bit...in fact, i said i wasn't sure if i might not have fallen into the same traps of greed that he did.
The extremes of labeling a person "good" or "evil". Maybe even the extremes of moral absolutism and moral relativism. (it's just what your posts were making me think of, nevermind)
I don't think ken lay fully realized the consequences of his actions. that's the only thing I'll say about people's anger. I'm sure he didn't go out and set to ruing people's retirements. Its just an example of when lying can get out of control.
