You are missing the point. It's not about giving someone props for "saying out of jail." It's about giving someone props for achieving a level of success (NBA) after withstanding such dire conditions. Someone born within a rich family has a easier chance of becoming successful than someone that is born into poverty and crime; I'm not saying everyone; but rather, on average. By saying, "Gimme a break! You are supposed to make a successful life even when subjected to crime and squaller" is completely ignoring the external factors a person is raised in.
So does that mean every person who grew up in the projects main ambition in life is to stay out of life? What kind of expectation is that? How about every white guy who comes into the league is just expected to shoot 3 pointers and not dunk (sorry Bobby Sura, go back to the NBDL to work on that 3). I grew up a block from the project, and went to school with a lot of the same guys who didn't have a family and lived on food stamps, yet their main ambiiton these days isnt to stay of of jail. I respect what you're saying and you might think you're doing a favor by commending poor people for not going to jail, but what you're really doing is just patting these guys on the head and saying good boy for not making a mess in the kitchen. There are plenty of poor people in the world, sopme people like to use that as an ecuse for being a f*ck up, and it's people with your kind of thinking that allows them to get away with it and not try to make something better of themselves.
I bet those guys who are debating seriously on Kayman's wife words are not married or haven't been long enough with women.
Stay on track here. Stop blowing this out of proportion. If you want to talk about class struggles, feel free to join me in the D&D area. All I'm talking about is Amare. Plain and simple. And I didn't say, "commending poor for not going to jail." It was YOU that said that. I said, that he should be congratulated for achievement (compared to ANYONE) considering his family conditions. That includes a poor farmer in the 50's that started with 10 dollars in his pocket and become a millionaire. That includes a orphan that struggled through poverty that ended up starting his own business. If you start with nothing, and achieve much...That should be recognized. You do know that FAMILY and support as a lot to do with how a person turns out, don't you? Or do you live in a vacuum where EVERYBODY, no matter where they come from SHOULD achieve success NO MATTER WHAT? I mean, come on! Get real! The world doesn't work like that; it's not cut and dry like that.
David, Read my post, I grew up within a block of the projects and am very good friends with people who didnt have their fathers around, lived on food stamps, and dealt with racial profiling from the police, but they dont sit around asking people to feel sorry for them. Noone wants to be treated like a little boy, everyone of these guys want to do something with their life, they want the same things that white rich folks who went to private school their entire lives want, and they do not want some patronizing guy saying "well, golly, look at what htis poor boy has gone through". Don't expect less of them just because they grew up with adversity, you wouldn't want a guy who had a bad game to blame it on injury would you? The great ones never did.
Is Amare "asking people to be sorry for him?" I choose to recognize what he's achieved because he happens to play a sport on the professional level; that within itself should be recognized...Plus, rising out of the conditions that were placed against him. Period. And just like many of your friends wanted to get out of the projects, there are thousands of other that don't make it. You seem to think that family conditions and environment don't have ANY effect on a person. Oh, really? EVERYONE has the same chances? Ok... Then, why call it "adversity." Why not call it "easy and expected." And that's why I choose to acknowledge Amare. He was one of those guys that didn't give up and did NOT "blame it on injury."
I dunno if he is or isn't asking ofr others to feel sorry for him, but YOU are feeling sorry for him, and trust me it's not doing him any favors. You're a man, would you like it if anyone just looked at you and said they felt sorry for you, and that it would be ok if you f*cked up your life because of those circumstances? That's just as racist as being told you're worthless and that it'll be a shock to anyone if you make something of your life. That he plays at a high level in the NBA, I can respect; there's no need to talk about how the poor black boy rose out of the projects to become a success story. That's an insult to every NBA player who had fathers that were around to help them grow up. As for the thousands that don't make it, this is a capitalist society, if you want hte state to give you a job, mobe to Cuba or some other idealistic place where communism still exists. I think Amare's a great player, I'm just not impressed by him from a personal point of view when it comes to his "struggles". He went to prep schools, he migth have grown up in the projects as a kid but as a teen, when its most dangerous in the projects, he lived the good (paid) life, he never had to work a minimum wage job, he never had to deal with half the sh*t my friends deal with. You mgith eb impessed with what he went through as part of growing up, but his story is just a dime a dozen to me
BTW, the projects are NOT slums. It aint spic and span but its nowhere near a slum. Thats where homeless people live, in the projects, people got beds to sleep in.
It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with being a HUMAN BEING that achives a lot even though they struggled through dire circumstances. Period! Again, I'm talking about just Amare. Not your friends. Not America. Not the world. Stay on track. And I never said it was "ok if you f*cked up your life because of those circumstances?" It's about acknowledging those that MAKE IT. Not those that don't. Also, just like I can't tell you to care. You can't tell me not to care! And as far as "doing him a favor." Get real. It's just acknowledgment. Not "feeling sorry." He's already achived millions!!! There's no "feeling sorry" about that. He's already made it. I mean, hell. Are you made of iron. Do you have no heart? If someones family dies, do you just say, "Oh well...get over it?" Please...spare me! If you feel like that, that's your prerogative. That about sums up your view point. "Dime a dozen" to you.
David, I know people who grew up in their teenage years having to steal to help put some food and clothes in the house. Amare by comparison was well conpensated for his basketball skills from the minute he was 13 years old. How can you expect me to respect this man's "struggles" when he had things handed to him financially? Dont tell me he was from a broken family, thats the story of almost every poor person's life. When you dont have to worry about getting shoes for your baby brother or helping your mom put food on the table, life can be pretty easy compared to others. Yet those guys that went through that would deck anyone trying to take pity on them. Growing up poor makes you a proud person who just wants ot be treated like everyone else. I respect you though bro, you keep to your principles, and got good intentions (however misguided they may be IMO). I rhink this does belong in the D&D but I rarely go there =P
Please don't turn this in to a "my struggles are worse than your struggles." It's not about that. It's about recognizing those that MAKE IT under dire circumstances. How adverse those struggles may be, are purely subjective and personal. One can spend all day splitting hairs. Also, I didn't want this to be a discussion about Capitalism. That much more broad a topic than that I'm TRYING to stay focused on. Trust me. I belive in the "work hard for your achievements." Not the "feel sorry for the lazy." But when someone has major circumstances already against them at birth, AND they MAKE IT (both of those occurrences). That has to be worth *something* one would recognize. Right? If all he did was make it to McDonnals French Fry guy, that would NOT be *as* impressive. There are different levels of success.
No offense, but first you say you dont want this to be a comparison of struggles, but then you start comparing different levels of success. I'll play along. Who is more successful in life? Shawn Kemp who has fathered 40 something kids and counting and makes millions of dollars a year form the NBA, or a guy who makes 40k a year and is a good husband and father to his 2 kids? You dont want to compare the journey, but you have ni problem comparing the destination. Amare is successful because he was born with athleticism, he didnt have to work on being athletic, and he definetely didnt put in as much work fundamentaly as other NBAers. A person who has to work at their success, like going to school, studying for the ACT and SAT, working through college, paying off loans and rent, they deserve more recognition than some dude who was lucky enough to be born with a freak of a nature athletic body. I wasnt trying to go down this road with you, but you the one who brought up how it would be differnt if he was a french fry guy. What if that french fry guy goes to night school and works 2 jobs to feed his family?
That's right. Amare has an advantage, physically. He was blessed with natural athletic ability. But because this is an NBA BBS, that's why HE was brought up. If this was the "class struggles BBS" then we can talk about who had it "worse" off. Again, spitting hairs. And that's why it's subjective. You can't put a measure on how much someone "suffers" You can only look at the whole picture of their journey and then recognize that. As far as, "A person who has to work at their success, like going to school, studying for the ACT and SAT, working through college, paying off loans and rent, they deserve more recognition than some dude who was lucky enough to be born with a freak of a nature athletic body."... Yes, that person deserves a lot of credit too. Espcially if they started with little help (not someone that has a rich family that pays for everything). It's all relative. But since Amare happens to be in the NBA, and this is a NBA BBS, that's why we were talking about him and not the guy that "stuggled though school...etc..."
My whole point in it is that Amare, like other NBAers, was well compensated for his skills starting as soon as he turned puberty. The whole notion that these young bloods coming into the league from a poor life is so overly blown, they get free clothes, free meals, plus spending money, why would they even bother robbing when they can just get some sneaker company or prep school to pay for them? The only thing that gets these guys in trouble is their habits that htey pick up from friends who arent so successful or that they picked up because of where they grew up. Even then, these habits would get most people sent to jail, but athletes consistently get things covered up or they walk away with a slap on the wrsit. When I hear people wax poetic about how so and so athlete stayed out of trouble, I odten turn skeptical, because I've just read way too many stories on ESPN about athletic crimes that got covered up. I think you know where I'm coming from.
Yep. Iverson (in the past) and the Blazers. Amare (new generation)...so far have kept their nose clean. Bad influence from their "home town" friends and youth has a lot to do with it. They ARE pampered, now that they have made it. But that's another story ($$$). Power of money...
Yes, I could tell...that's why you shouldn't go into the D&D area. Me? I'm Independent Party. But leaning Democrat this year. Voted for Reagan's term in 1986. Also wanted John McCain (R) to run over GW Bush. Just depends on who's running. I am NOT a an extremist; i.e. I do NOT vote the "straight ticket." Heh...
Good point about the Blazers, I forgot about them for some reason. BTW you should check out these ABCD kids in NY, Nike and Adidas and Reebok fight over these kids like they the goose that lay the golden eggs. We'll save that for another thread though. I'm out, good discussion with you
