"I think you're showing a lack of "knowledge" if you really believe anybody outside of Utah cares what Malone and Flopton do statistically." •They were voted in the top 50 greatest. (along with 19 other players who never won a championship.) and you'll be reading there stats in the record book for years and years. "I don't think I've ever read anywhere on this bbs where someone said Stockton and Malone had no talent. " •it's all over this thread, including the post above yours. (or rather what they quoted. "Better yet, how many players have been knocked unconscious by someone OTHER than Karla?" •Serious? People every year. Malon has been suspened 6 times in 17 years. Compare that to say... Juwan Howard, 2 times in four weeks last year. (Anderson, Marion) If you call setting hard picks, dirty play, then I guess the Jazz are guilty. Isiah Thomas started the "dirty player " when he was with the Bad boys from Detroit. Stockton use to eat his lunch. People are still buying into it. Show me the clips of this dirty play, where can I find them? Barkley himself said Stockton was not dirty, he just knew all the tricks, that all the good players use. I want clips, prove it. (and not Thomas, Vecsey and other Jazz haters articles.) •Yes we lost out in the 95 and 96 playoffs, but the fact of the matter is, you would not of had that championship, if the owners had not dumped the second season to get Olijuwan, and if MJ had been playing. Personally, I would rather not have a championship, if it meant doing what Houston did. Stern would be touching no one's balls, if Houston's actions had not caused the lottery to come into being. •About the 18 playoffs in a row (17 with Karl and John) Would your girlfriend rather have a quickie, or a nice long sustained experience? I think this topic is just about finished, we are just bringing up the same arguments. There is no way I can convince you, you have your minds made up. I would of liked to talk basketball, but the name calling ended the intellegent conversation. Hope Francis is ok, the foot thing will get better, the migraines are a cause for concern.
So you'd choose the nice long sustained experience, but not really delivering the "end product" to your girlfriend, if you know what I mean. After all that effort, you'd think she'd want a little "satisfaction" at the end of it. Still, if you're both happy...
You have chosen to ignore the fact that the Bulls had no answer for Olajuwon and the Rockets dominated Jordans Bulls in the regular season. The old draft system was faulty long before the Rockets exploited it. Given the economic and business pressures of that time period, it was only a matter of time before some team did it. If we apply your logic, then we take away all of the Celtics championships with Larry Bird because Auerbach was crafty enough to draft Bird after his Junior year. A loophole closed shortly there after. Do you have any idea why they're called "Bird rights"? Guess the Celtics were just cheating again. Let's strip Boston of all their titles- according to your logic, they don't deserve any. Also, we don't you learn to spell "Olajuwon". That's what Malone would say. Steve Kerr's rings are worthless because he played on a team with Micheal Jordan. What do you suspect a class act like Jordan would say about Kerr's ring? My guess would be something like "Kerr's contributions in the 82 regular season games and the playoffs were invaluable. He embodies every sense of the word "team". Karl's statement is derived from his overblown ego coming to terms with the realization that he is not going to win a championship. Once again proving to all but hard-core Jazz fans just how classless he is. An this proves what? That Malone and the Jazz couldn't win the big one? What does Utah's better regular season record mean when the Rockets bump them out in the first round ('94-'95)? When Lakers annoucer Chick Hearn mentions Robert Horry's rings, he doesn't place any asterisks by them with some reference that Horry "coat-tailed" Olajuwon. The cold, hard reality is this. Outside of Utah, there are very few Jazz fans. The reason is obvious - most NBA fans recognize class....and the fact that there is so little of it displayed by the Utah Jazz or Karl Malone is the reason. In closing, you could dismiss all of this as a biased opinions from blindly loyal Rockets fans. But as a subscriber to NBA League Pass for the past 2 seasons, I am now aware that except for references to their work ethic, NO OTHER TEAMS' ANNOUCERS HAVE ANYTHING POSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT THE JAZZ!. Wake up and read the handwriting on the wall - Malone is a has been and he now knows his window of opportunity has closed. Malone is taking his frustration out on people who have also worked hard but have been more fortunate. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Hey, Karl - who said life was fair?
GB Rocket, LOL O so TRUE! Nice Long sustained experience, but not really delivering = BLUE BALLS If ya plan on doing it, gotta Finish it off!
I still don't see why this whole argument has pulled away from the 'dirty players' angle. Several guys have made it clear *why* the Jazz are hated - and it has nothing to do with talent, playoffs, or anything else this thread has mentioned. You wanted proof? With all due respect guys, any time you're given proof you see something else. This is what I've noticed about Jazz fans. Everyone else in the game - even the most hated of rivals - can at least come together on how the Jazz play. But you guys fool yourselves into never seeing it. And we don't need Thomas to tell us what is 'dirty'. We can see it for ourselves. But when I see Malone snap back an elbow to smash it into Robinson's face, you would just see him clearing space for a rebound. When we see him kick out his hoof on the way down, catching any groins that might be in the way, you'd talk about fundamentals. When I see all the power that is Matt Maloney brush by Malone knock him down like he was hit with a bulldozer - well, I don't know what excuse you could come up with for that, but I'm sure there is one. Hell, we're not even on the floor. The players are - and look what they tell you about your team. And something tells me Thomas didn't send out league-wide memos saying "Hey guys, remember the Jazz are dirty, according to me! Keep the conspiracy going! Thanks, Isiah." Look, I followed the other thread and checked out your messageboard. I have to say you were very calm, collected and well-spoken there, and I should mention that's great to see. Most of us would not debate the statistics and the durability of the two players that have anchored your franchise. They are two of the top 50 for a reason. But, like most of the league and their fans, we are well aware of the kind of play the Jazz bring to the court. Your inability to see that isn't going to bring along anything but flames here. It might be best to stay out of that subject. Otherwise, we're always happy to see guys who can intelligently talk ball.
""You have chosen to ignore the fact that the Bulls had no answer for Olajuwon and the Rockets dominated Jordans Bulls in the regular season. "" •you have chosen to ignore the fact that they never won them in the playoffs. The Jazz swept them in the '98 regular season. So what does that prove? ""The old draft system was faulty long before the Rockets exploited it. Given the economic and business pressures of that time period, it was only a matter of time before some team did it. "" •Good rationalization. lol ""If we apply your logic, then we take away all of the Celtics championships with Larry Bird because Auerbach was crafty enough to draft Bird after his Junior year. A loophole closed shortly there after. Do you have any idea why they're called "Bird rights"? Guess the Celtics were just cheating again. Let's strip Boston of all their titles- according to your logic, they don't deserve any"" •This is why I had to come back. Bird rights are for salary sake when a team signs it's own free agents. Or a player is traded. I cannot believe someone here did not correct you. does anyone here know about the CBA AND CAP? Check this out, it will explain it to you. http://www.members.home.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#21 ""The cold, hard reality is this. Outside of Utah, there are very few Jazz fans. The reason is obvious - most NBA fans recognize class....and the fact that there is so little of it displayed by the Utah Jazz or Karl Malone is the reason. "" Suggest you check the thread out. http://pub76.ezboard.com/fnotmesutahjazzfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1656.topic As for my girlfriend, she loves 17 years without a letdown, the consistent performance, (Malone missed 2 days from injury, his entire career) and having the #2 scorer of all time. She has been in heaven for 17 years. I may not finish, but she is the most satisfied person around. Get the idea? Would you buy a car that ran for only 5 years, instead of a 17 year one? This will be the final time I address any of you. The powers to be has banned me. I will respect their wishes. (I was not planning on coming back, but the Bird story was just to unreal.....) Good luck this year... Rokkit Just saw your post. Thomas used his job as an announcer to further the Story. Jackson used it in the finals. The only thing you know is what you have read. Robinson and Malone were friends, he even called him on the phone at the hospital. Laettner and Thomas were different, he retaliated, and should not of. He was wrong. Just as wrong as Shaq sending Crotty to the floor with his knee, downcourt, with no oter players around. Look up the flagrant fouls in the league, and tell me who has the most, or show me the clips. I am dying to see proof.
HAHA! I love how the Utah Jazz fans are making excuse after excuse for why they failed to win a championship at some point I'd rather have 2 rings and a rebuilt team for the future, then 17 years of futility and no future. Doesn't matter that Jordan retired, I noticed Utah couldn't do anything that year. Only a fan that is resigned to the fact that they'll never win a championship would say that they would take 17 years of playoff appearances over 2 championship rings. I'm sure Stockton and Malone are laughing at Hakeem and his 2 championship rings knowing they have numerous playoff appearances to their name huh? Every time they look up at the Lakers and Rockets and Spurs championship banners they'll laugh knowing they have 2 Western Conference championship banners huh? Now keep on rationalizing your constant choking in the playoffs! And by the way, the Rockets never beat Jordan in the Finals, but Jordan never beat the Rockets in the Finals now did he?
It proves that every once in while (17 or so years), the Jazz can get out of the WC and into the Finals. I prefer to look at it as logic. And I fully expect logic to elude anyone who roots for the Utah Jazz. Dear Rookie/newbie, Almost everyone here at Clutch City has Coon's FAQ's book marked. No one "called" me on this because everyone here is aware that there was obviously an element of preferential treatment given. Please observe from section 16: "This exception is known as the Larry Bird exception because the Celtics were the first team allowed to exceed the cap to keep their own free agent, and the player happened to be Bird" No one here b****es much about this form of preferential treatment. But we've always wondered why Malone gets away with elbows and Stockton with flops. I did and was unimpressed. Guess I've lived in Clutch City too long. CC has more of a Real World flavor.
I think the funniest thing about this thread, other than the blind eye cast towards the antics/thuggery of Malone and Flopton, is that some Jazz fans actually know how many of the NBA's top 50 players don't have a championship. I think that says it all. LMAO
<strong><font color="#FF0000">False.</font></strong> The Chicago Bulls won championships in 1991, 1992 and 1993 before the Rockets championships of 1994 and 1995. In 1991-1993, the Rockets beat the Bulls <strong>5 out of 6 times</strong> those seasons (as Achebe pointed out), with an average margin of victory of 12 points. The Rockets were getting even <em>stronger</em> heading in to their championship years and matched up phenomenally well against Chicago at just about every position. Those are <strong>facts</strong>. Your generalizations are just imaginary garbage with nothing factual to back it up. By the way, during that same time span, the Jazz were 1-5 against the Bulls. You also seem to forget Michael Jordan <em>was</em> playing in 1995, averaging 27 points a night. Sure, sure, he played just 20 regular season games before the playoffs, but I didn't see anyone b****ing when he dropped 55 in his second game back... against the Knicks in New York no less. He fell in 6 to Orlando... the Rockets swept Orlando. <strong><font color="#FF0000">False.</font></strong> Do you even know what happened to bring the lottery in to effect in 1984-85, or are you just repeating the tripe that helps soothe the penis envy Jazz fans suffer from when comparing themselves to the Houston Rockets? For nearly 20 years, the NBA's policy was that the worst team from the Eastern Conference and the worst team from the Western Conference would flip a coin for the top pick. In 1983-84, the Rockets were 29-53 and the Indiana Pacers were 26-56, so they were set to flip. But the Bulls (27-55) and the Cavs (28-54) had inferior records to the Rockets, yet since they were in the East, they would not have <strong>any shot</strong> for a better draft pick than the Rockets. Right off the bat that tells you a change was needed, and there was already a great deal of b****ing about this, so when Houston won the top pick, for the second season in a row (and the second straight season of a franchise center being available), there had to be a change for the sake of the league, to create parity. In fact, the official release of the lottery was to "level the playing field" (though quite frankly it was a Stern "made-for-TV" production that gave the league more control) No matter what though, Houston was <em>lucky</em> -- they still had to win two 50-50 shot coin flips. So the next season, they implemented the lottery, and found it had even more flaws in the system. They randomly picked the top 7 teams. Did you know the Indiana Pacers at 22-60 picked second in 1985, behind the big market Knicks, yet Golden State (tied with the Pacers with the second-worst record in the league at 22-60) picked <strong>seventh</strong>? That prompted the NBA to change the rules <strong>again</strong> after just one season of that lottery. They would only randomly select the top 3 picks, and the rest in inverse order of record. In 1990 they changed it <strong>again</strong> to a ping-pong ball system. Then in 1993, Orlando won the top pick, then won it <em>again</em> the following year despite just <em>one</em> ping pong ball in the lottery. So the league changed the draft selection rules <strong>again</strong>, from a 66 ping-pong ball system to a series of combinations, 1001 of them to be exact. It's clear the way the NBA has determined the draft order has evolved a great deal over time, and anytime the parity of the league was threatened, the league took action to reshape the process. The Rockets wining back-to-back coin tosses simply exposed the process, and as shown, 1984 wasn't the only case. Did the Rockets tank games? Who knows... you certainly can't prove that. They did lose 17 of their last 20 games, but the Rockets weren't exactly a very good team... not to mention the Bulls lost 14 of their last 15, so if there was tanking, it wasn't Rocket-exclusive. But hey, if it makes you feel better to piss and moan that the Rockets cheated the draft process, the Lakers tampered to get Shaq, the Spurs tanked to get Duncan while the innocent, clean, blue-collar, hard-working Jazz did it the right way, by all means.... don't let facts get in the way. And on a side note: What exactly does trading Otis Thorpe for Drexler in 1995 have <em>anything</em> to do with <em>anything</em> in this discussion? Sure. ROFLMAO. <strong><font color="#FF0000">False.</font></strong> I can't find any data on how the Jazz and Bulls fared against each other in 1989-1990, the first season of the decade, but from 1990-91 to 1998-99, the final season of the decade of the 90's, the Jazz were 7-10 against the Bulls (including a creampuff win against the rebuilding Bulls of 1998-99), so even if they did go 2-0 in 1989-90, they would still have a losing record. BTW, the Rockets did not have a "winning" record either. They were 9-9 against Chicago in the '90's, but never got that cakewalk 'W' in 98-99 (Houston and Chicago did not face each other in the lockout-shortened season). <strong><font color="#FF0000">False.</font></strong> The Chicago Bulls had the best record for the decade of the 90's at 558-230. The Jazz were second at 542-246. The Spurs were <em>fifth</em>. However, the real rankings go something like this: Chicago 6, Houston 2, Detroit 1, San Antonio 1, Everyone else 0. <strong><font color="#FF0000">False.</font></strong> If you're notty, nobody banned you. <em>Ever</em>. Either you typed in the wrong password or you're pulling a garbage stunt to make yourself look oppressed (the latter seems more likely). I'm sorry.... what were you saying about proving things with <strong>facts</strong>? And 17 straight years of ending the season with a loss. In closing, you could unload excuse after excuse about anything, but the Rockets simply won titles, and rolled over the Jazz in doing so. We could b**** and moan about Malone's bearhug illegal pick to free Stockton's shot, or how the Rockets were plagued with injuries in the late 90's or hell, if Antoine Carr hadn't taken Barkley out in Game 4 of the 1998 first round matchup with the Jazz, Utah would have gone down 3-1 as a top seed falling to an 8th seed. But you move on. You win and you lose. When you lose big games, you just have to deal with it. You just have more "dealing with it" to do than we do.
<dir> <font SIZE="1"> <p>quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>•hmmm....Maybe the fact the only years the Rockets could win the Bulls, was when Jordan was retired, proves it.</b> </p> </font><font FACE="Times New Roman"> </dir> </font> <p><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000"><b>False.</b></font><font SIZE="2"> The Chicago Bulls won championships in 1991, 1992 and 1993 before the Rockets championships of 1994 and 1995. In 1991-1993, the Rockets beat the Bulls <b>5 out of 6 times</b> those seasons (as Achebe pointed out), with an average margin of victory of 12 points. The Rockets were getting even <i>stronger</i> heading in to their championship years and matched up phenomenally well against Chicago at just about every position. Those are <b>facts</b>. Your generalizations are just imaginary garbage with nothing factual to back it up. <br> By the way, during that same time span, the Jazz were 1-5 against the Bulls. </p> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b> <br>Fact: the Jazz also had a winning record with the Bulls, in regular season, during '97 & 98. (Split in 97, sweep in 98....or 3 out of 4). So what's your point? (one of your generalizations maybe?)<br> </b></font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>•Yes we lost out in the 95 and 96 playoffs, but the fact of the matter is, you would not of had that championship, if the owners had not dumped the second season to get Olijuwan, and if MJ had been playing.</b> <br> You also seem to forget Michael Jordan <i>was</i> playing in 1995, averaging 27 points a night. Sure, sure, he played just 20 regular season games before the playoffs, but I didn't see anyone b****ing when he dropped 55 in his second game back... against the Knicks in New York no less. He fell in 6 to Orlando... the Rockets swept Orlando. <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b>Please, lets stick to full season, in shape Jordan. Your generalizing now with the win over New York.<br> </b></font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>•Of couse, if the Rockets had not dumped two seasons, to get two stright number one picks (Sampson=traded for Drexler, and Olijuwan) They would never of made theplayoffs (did you know that Houston was responsibly for the NBA instituting the lottery because of this inappropriate action?) ........ Stern would be touching no one's balls, if Houston's actions had not caused the lottery to come into being.</b> <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000"><b>False.</b></font><font SIZE="2"> Do you even know what happened to bring the lottery in to effect in 1984-85, or are you just repeating the tripe that helps soothe the penis envy Jazz fans suffer from when comparing themselves to the Houston Rockets? <br> For nearly 20 years, the NBA's policy was that the worst team from the Eastern Conference and the worst team from the Western Conference would flip a coin for the top pick. In 1983-84, the Rockets were 29-53 and the Indiana Pacers were 26-56, so they were set to flip. But the Bulls (27-55) and the Cavs (28-54) had inferior records to the Rockets, yet since they were in the East, they would not have <b>any shot</b> for a better draft pick than the Rockets. Right off the bat that tells you a change was needed, and there was already a great deal of b****ing about this, so when Houston won the top pick, for the second season in a row (and the second straight season of a franchise center being available), there had to be a change for the sake of the league, to create parity. In fact, the official release of the lottery was to "level the playing field" (though quite frankly it was a Stern "made-for-TV" production that gave the league more control) <br> No matter what though, Houston was <i>lucky</i> -- they still had to win two 50-50 shot coin flips. <br> So the next season, they implemented the lottery, and found it had even more flaws in the system. They randomly picked the top 7 teams. Did you know the Indiana Pacers at 22-60 picked second in 1985, behind the big market Knicks, yet Golden State (tied with the Pacers with the second-worst record in the league at 22-60) picked <b>seventh</b>? That prompted the NBA to change the rules <b>again</b> after just one season of that lottery. They would only randomly select the top 3 picks, and the rest in inverse order of record. <br> In 1990 they changed it <b>again</b> to a ping-pong ball system. Then in 1993, Orlando won the top pick, then won it <i>again</i> the following year despite just <i>one</i> ping pong ball in the lottery. So the league changed the draft selection rules <b>again</b>, from a 66 ping-pong ball system to a series of combinations, 1001 of them to be exact. <br> <br> It's clear the way the NBA has determined the draft order has evolved a great deal over time, and anytime the parity of the league was threatened, the league took action to reshape the process. The Rockets wining back-to-back coin tosses simply exposed the process, and as shown, 1984 wasn't the only case. Did the Rockets tank games? Who knows... you certainly can't prove that. They did lose 17 of their last 20 games, but the Rockets weren't exactly a very good team... not to mention the Bulls lost 14 of their last 15, so if there was tanking, it wasn't Rocket-exclusive. <br> But hey, if it makes you feel better to piss and moan that the Rockets cheated the draft process, the Lakers tampered to get Shaq, the Spurs tanked to get Duncan while the innocent, clean, blue-collar, hard-working Jazz did it the right way, by all means.... don't let facts get in the way. <br> And on a side note: What exactly does trading Otis Thorpe for Drexler in 1995 have <i>anything</i> to do with <i>anything</i> in this discussion? </p> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b> <p>Simple fact, Houston lost on purpose. You had your choice of Jordan or MJ. You cannot lose a coin toss like that. 6 championships or 2, what a choice.</p> <p> Houston sat their players, put in the subs, and finished the season. The explanation of the evolution of the draft was interesting, but it was a diversion from the fact. Houston cheated to the point, the other owners demanded a way to keep a team from sandbagging. That is history, and a fact. <br>(oh, I stand corrected, it was your #3 pick, that eventually brought Drexler. Rodney McCray, for Otis thorpe for Drexler) </b></font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>•Personally, I would rather not have a championship, if it meant doing what Houston did.</b> </p> </font><font SIZE="2"> <p>Sure. ROFLMAO. </p> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b> <p>My opinion, I prefer honesty</b>. <br> </font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>I did read it carefully, the Jazz had a winning record over the Bulls in the 90's also. Just not in the finals...like you.</b> </p> </font> <p><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000"><b>False.</b></font><font SIZE="2"> I can't find any data on how the Jazz and Bulls fared against each other in 1989-1990, the first season of the decade, but from 1990-91 to 1998-99, the final season of the decade of the 90's, the Jazz were 7-10 against the Bulls (including a creampuff win against the rebuilding Bulls of 1998-99), so even if they did go 2-0 in 1989-90, they would still have a losing record. <br> </font></p><br><font SIZE="2">BTW, the Rockets did not have a "winning" record either. They were 9-9 against Chicago in the '90's, but never got that cakewalk 'W' in 98-99 (Houston and Chicago did not face each other in the lockout-shortened season).<br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b> <p>True, the 90's started with the 90-91 season, and we did have a winng record. I do not know what houston had. So I will take your word on it.</p> <p>(the first year AD was 1, not zero. Therefore the first decade was year 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. the second decade was 11-20, and so forth).<br> </b></font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>•btw, the Jazz had the best record in the 90's, San Antonio was second. Check it out if you do not believe me.</b> <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000"><b>False.</b></font><font SIZE="2"> The Chicago Bulls had the best record for the decade of the 90's at 558-230. The Jazz were second at 542-246. The Spurs were <i>fifth</i>. <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b>True: see above. then go here...</p> <p>http://jazzhoops.net/90.htm</b><br> <br> </font><font SIZE="2">However, the real rankings go something like this: Chicago 6, Houston 2, Detroit 1, San Antonio 1, Everyone else 0. <br> </font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by NANKER-PHELGE</i> <br> <b>This will be the final time I address any of you. The powers to be has banned me. I will respect their wishes. (I was not planning on coming back, but the Bird story was just to unreal.....)</b> <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000"><b>False.</b></font><font SIZE="2"> If you're notty, nobody banned you. <i>Ever</i>. Either you typed in the wrong password or you're pulling a garbage stunt to make yourself look oppressed (the latter seems more likely). <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><b>Ahhh: I was banned or my account was deactivated. When posting a reply I recieved this: notice I am logged in, but unable to post? Also I recieved the same message yesterday, on a different sever/machine, for notty and Nanker. <br>http://www.myezboard.com/projects/ezboard/ezboard_userimages/crutch.jpg</p> </b></font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>When you can't prove it with facts, the only thing you have left is the name calling.</b> <br></font><b><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#ff0000">I'm sorry.... what were you saying about proving things with facts? <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff">I think I have provided facts, however like you, I also expressed opinions</font></b><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff">.<br> </font><font SIZE="1">quote:</font><font SIZE="2"> <br> <i>Originally posted by notty </i><br> <b>BTW, 17 years staight to the playoffs.</b> <br> And 17 straight years of ending the season with a loss. <br> <br> In closing, you could unload excuse after excuse about anything, but the Rockets simply won titles, and rolled over the Jazz in doing so. We could b**** and moan about Malone's bearhug illegal pick to free Stockton's shot, or how the Rockets were plagued with injuries in the late 90's or hell, if Antoine Carr hadn't taken Barkley out in Game 4 of the 1998 first round matchup with the Jazz, Utah would have gone down 3-1 as a top seed falling to an 8th seed. <br> But you move on. You win and you lose. When you lose big games, you just have to deal with it. <br> <br> You just have more "dealing with it" to do than we do.</font><font FACE="Times New Roman"> <br> </font><font FACE="Times New Roman" COLOR="#0000ff"><b>We both have things to deal with, like barkley trying to injure Stockton, then bragging about it.<br> </b></font><font FACE="Times New Roman" SIZE="2"> <a href="http://archive.sportserver.com/generic/story/0,1673,47722-76949-549781-0,00.html">http://archive.sportserver.com/generic/story/0,1673,47722-76949-549781-0,00.html</a><br>ooops, this one was about Webber<br> </font> <font FACE="Times New Roman" SIZE="2"> <p><a href="http://www.ksl.com/TV/jazz/game2.htm"> http://www.ksl.com/TV/jazz/game2.htm</a><br>This is the Barkley one...<br> </font><b><font FACE="Times New Roman" COLOR="#0000ff"> <p>As far the the Championships go, many great players and teams do not win the championship. Yes I would like a championship, but it is not my only gauge of a players worth. I enjoy going to other forums, and talking intelligently with other fans. I am not just a fan of the Jazz, but of the game itself. Name calling does not prove a point</font><font FACE="Times New Roman" SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff">, anywhere. I apreciate the discussion, with facts and (mostly) not name calling </p> <p>I think this is ended on my part, I have my opinion, and you have yours. I can deal with that...</font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><br> </font></b><font SIZE="2">__________________<br> <b>NOTHING BUT .NET</b> <br> </font><font SIZE="2" COLOR="#0000ff"><u>CLUTCHCITY.NET <http://www.clutchcity.net></p> </u></font>
That was the most pathetic response I've ever seen. You made a bogus claim, "hmmm....Maybe the fact the only years the Rockets could win the Bulls, was when Jordan was retired, proves it", and had it refuted. The Rockets took 5 of 6 from Jordan in his first three championship seasons, the years before he left the game... there is <strong>zero basis</strong> for discrediting the Rockets and simply handing titles to the Bulls in 1994 and 1995 by assuming they 1) make the Finals and 2) would beat the Rockets. Tip: Learn English to the point where you understand what "generalizing" means. You said Jordan did not play those seasons, and no matter how you want to paint it, he did play nearly 30 games that season including the playoffs, and averaged 27 points a night, including 55 points in his second game back. I don't know any worthless players that can put up 55 in the Garden against the Knicks. Since this is history and fact, who were the Rocket players (that would have won a bunch of games for the team) that were forced to sit down the stretch and the subs that were forced to play and tank? After all, you know this to be a fact. This should be interesting. Not at all. You said, "did you know that Houston was responsibly for the NBA instituting the lottery because of this inappropriate action?", and I showed you that wasn't necessarily the case in the way you tried to paint it. Seriously, you're full of it. I doubt you were even born by 1984 and would have no clue what the owners "demanded". If you're going to suffer a losing season, which is painful and damaging for a franchise and its fans, the draft is a way for that team to improve. Baseball and football simply go by worst team to best, so any team could "sandbag" and get the top pick. But even in basketball, before the lottery, you could go 0-82 and you still only had a 50% shot at the top pick. Educating you on the NBA draft at the time was to show you that there were 3 teams that had worse records than the Rockets, and atleast one (the Bulls) lost more games down the stretch, yet Houston got the top pick -- a change was needed. And the league has made changes to "level the playing field" on more than one occasion. Let me get this straight: You accused the Rockets of cheating in 1983 (the <B>first</B> top draft pick season) in order to get Clyde Drexler, who they acquired <b>12 seasons later</b>, and now you find out the Rockets didn't select Drexler or in any way acquire him with anything related to their top pick (which they didn't do anything illegal to get) through hand-me-down swaps spanning more than a decade? That's called pulling stuff out of your ass. I can't believe this -- I just showed you that from 1990-91 to 1998-99, the Jazz were 7-10 against the Bulls. You could take <B>any season</B> you want (1989-90, 1999-2000, 1941-42, 22 B.C -- who cares) and add to it, but since the Bulls and Jazz don't face each other more than twice per season, and the Jazz are 4 wins away from a "winning record", the Jazz can't get enough wins in any one season to have a winning record against the Bulls in the 90's -- <b>period</b>. Bottom line: The Jazz had a losing record against the Bulls in the 90's, not a winning record. Your claim was false. Unbelievable. The 1989-1990 season is known as the "1990 season". We are talking about the <B>90's</B>, and 1990 is part of the 90's. The year 2000 is <B>not</B>. A good rule of thumb on this is to look for the sound "ninety" when fully pronouncing the year. Or better yet, how about we just take a look at what the NBA calls the Decade of the 90's http://global.nba.com/history/decade_standings.html I'll say it again: FALSE. At no point in time was your account, either of them, banned or deactivated. You simply screwed up when trying to "post a reply". Rather than hit <B>reply</B> (<img src="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/images/quote_bbs.gif">) on the person's post, you hit <B>edit</B> (<img src="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/images/edit_bbs.gif">). Since you do not have edit privileges on someone else's post, you got the message you did. In the very graphic you posted, it states that possibility clearly in #2. Go ahead.... try it again. "OH MY GOODNESS THE POWERS THAT BE BANNED ME AGAIN!" LOL! If this is your response to Jazz fans needing to deal with playoff losses, you need help. I don't have to deal with this -- I loved every second of it. Stockton is a cheap, dirty player who deserved to be floored, even if it was a cheap and dirty tactic itself. Why else do you think Webber did it again a few years later? Stockton is praised heavily by Jazz fans for being an old school guard who isn't afraid to hit/illegal pick big guys. Yet when he gets a taste of his own medicine from a frustrated big man who is tired of the running picks, Jazz fans want to cry foul because a big guy knocked down a little guy? Pfft. If you want to talk embarrassing moments, exactly how much did the Jazz pay their timekeeper, Wayne Hicken, to intentionally hold back 10 seconds before starting the clock on the final 13.5 seconds of Game 4 of the <em>Western Conference Finals</em> in Utah against the Rockets? And to think you actually accuse others of cheating. Try to discredit the Rockets all you want with these desperate reaches, but you are ignoring the obvious -- Utah never accomplished what Houston did. You say the Jazz have gone 17 years without a letdown -- I say they have been 17 years of nothing but letdowns. At some point, just making the playoffs isn't good enough. But hey .... <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/images/wallpaper/motivator3.jpg"><strong>patience</strong></a>.
My God this is sad. The Rockets fans are humiliating this guy. Ouch. Clutch, the Jazz are known for scoreboard problems. Last year, the Nugs went into the Delta Center and were going to pull of the win, but the scoreboard operator screwed up the Nugs timeouts. Said we had one when we didn't, Van Exel tried to call time out, got called for a technical. Is there a more disgusting team in the NBA than Utah? Priceless.
