Manny (Sorry, somehow you're pulled into this Internet tug-of-battle.), some points I want to clarify/respond to but have neglected...and I am, well, I neglected to clarify. Jason Williams is one of the most talented PGs, if not the most talented, in the league; and if there are any failings, it's most definitely someone else's fault -- specifically Rick Adelman. Instead of helping Jason Williams develop his game/mental approach, Adelman reduced him to questioning his role on the team. I am an imtelijent guy, at my core. When Jason Williams detractors try to mis-lead with statistics, I raise my JWill defense to playoff intensity. Playoff intensity, after all, separates the Jason Williams of the world, players with intangible talent, from the Mike Bibbys of the world, players whose supposed talent are unproven -- at least not in the postseason. As a fan, I will argue to the "bitter end" about Jason Williams's talent -- all the while, inserting pithy, witty sayings to make things more interesting. After all, who's going to ride your wild horses? Just wanted to clarify some points. University (Looking Glass) Blue
Silly to jump in, I know...but I don't believe I've ever seen teams play tough defense on a Jason Williams 3-pointer - half of them he takes on fast breaks, and the other half he is wide open. He is simply a poor 3-point shooter who thinks he is a good one. *boggle* If JWill ever took shots on that team while being defended, he should be shot - Peja and Barry were twice the shooters he was.
You would have thought somebody who goes by kobeshaq would have a little more insight about his team, I'll finish what he should have said" "2 words for you......Derrick Fisher " JWill has been in the simplest role to excell in oustide of Fisher's recent one, or perhaps Kenny Smith's in the mid 90's. The latter two are AVERAGE players who EXCELLED in great situations, JWill was in a great situation yet did NOT perform even AVERAGE. You apply your own logic here to figure out what kind of winners mettle JWill is made of. Interesting choice of support for JWill in the name of Stoudimire as well. You can bet Portland would have LOVE to have Mike Bibby over Minnie Mouse. Minnie Mouse and JWill are the president and vice-president of the "overly talented PGs who suck life out of good basketball teams" CLUB. They may be more talented than Bibby or the Terrel Brandon's of the NBA, but I'll take the former guys on my team any day over your pres. and vice-pres., unless I am a bottom feeder looking to fill seats and cover my rent. I don't agree with the basic point but love the quote so much I have to repeat it.
Mighty is really Minnie? What would Mickey say? What does that say about Mickey? Stoudamire and Bibby are one in the same -- undersized, non-athletic, non-impact guards. Jason Williams, on the other hand, should be ready to take his right-ful place among the elite PGs in the league. University (Where there's a JWill, there's a way.) Blue
Huh? Mike Bibby is listed at 6'1"(NBA) and 6'2" (ESPN) JWill is listed at 6'1" from both sources. All 4 sources lists these players at 190lbs. Now which one is undersized? Personally, I don't believe JWill weighs as much as the stronger Bibby, unless part of the formers 190lbs is a Chucky-esk beer belly he picked up this summer from home Tennessee cooking plus moonshine chased down with 20 year old Pabts. BTW-Stoudamire is 3-4 inches shorter and 20 points lighter than both, I would neither describe Bibby nor Stoudamire unathletic, even if the latter as with JWill suck despite having it.
How is it possible that one's shooting PERCENTAGE is better because he takes more shots??? The percentage doesn't change based on the number of shots taken. It's the proportion of shots made to shots attempted. Hence, shooting PERCENTAGE. Oh, well. What do you expect from fans who think JWill is "twice as good" as Bibby. Btw, I've just decided that Olden Polynice is (and always has been) better than Hakeem. I mean, sure, Hakeem's STATS are much better, but Olden just didn't take as many shots. And Olden didn't get as many points, rebounds, assists, blocks, or steals because he was on teams with better players (Kemp, Richmond, Malone, Stockton) than Hakeem did. Hakeem was too busy being the best player on his team to work on being the caliber of player that Olden is.
I don't have the time/motivation/HTML codes to give lessons on statistics and the laws of probability, but I do have time to make this announcement: I've just decided that Mike Bibby is (and always has been) better than Tracy McGrady...because he has a better shooting percentage. Kidding, of course, but one good non-sequitor deservers another. The original intent of the response was that statistics are mis-leading. Jason Williams detractors like to use statistics to further their argument; but in cause/effect relationships, not everything is so binary -- there are other factors to consider. University (Leaps of logic make me almost Fourier-ious.) Blue
Quite true Blue. And what are those mitigating factors? Typically if you play for a worse team you have to take tougher shots, if you take more shots generally the pressure on you from opponents defense is greater (why McGrady's, Iverson’s %s are lower), if you have better shooters around you should be more assists and have a better a/to ratio, etc, etc. Interesting how most of the mitigating factors seem to work to <i> increase </i> the statistical discrepancy between the players that favor Bibby, rather than reduce it. I think the perfect case was Derrick Fisher, you could add Stockton or Kenny Smith Rocket years in there too. Around great offensive players and dominant low post threats, a PGs numbers should be inflated relative to how he would do on a poorer team, not deflated.
I'm going to stop you at your premise because I do not agree that playing for a bad team means you have to take tougher shots. Your premise may be true, but the following statements can also be true: (1) With all the (deserved) hype surrounding Jason Williams, defenders are more motivated to bring their "A" game. (2) Defenses may not be as focused against a team with a losing record. (3) On teams with more than one/two talented players, a player's individual statistics are not necessarily indicative of his individual contribution/talent. (4) Werds kan bee mispelled awn perpus. University (Nut and Honey) Blue
Can't wait for that Memphis game...when all the Jason Williams detractors will follow in the crazy crow-steps of the Drew bashers and retire to the kingdom of the wit-less -- where Rick Adelman, the half-wit, is king. In fact, we should create a list now of all the detractors. [Add your own name to the list.] University (Poe-tic) Blue
Just so you know, most of my Jason Williams posts are in response to other people's post about him. If you don't like reading the post, you should FREAKIN' not open the thread!
Neither can I. Should be a good game...for Francis that is. As he will have a field day playing against Williams.
Okay guys, whats the final verdict on this? Bibby tore it up in the playoffs. The Kings finished with a better record and had a great post-season run. Jason Williams...um..I have no freaking idea what Jason did. Maybe someone can fill that part in. IMO J-Will didn't do too well in this matchup.
More fuel for debate: Bibby 2001-02 Statistics/ Playoffs PPG 13.7 - 20.3 RPG 2.8 - 3.8 APG 5.0 - 5.0 SPG 1.09 - 1.44 BPG .19 - .19 FG% .453 - .444 FT% .803 - .826 3P% .370 - .424 MPG 33.2 - 41.3 J-Will 2001-02 Statistics/ Playoffs (With Kings) PPG 14.8 - 9.6 RPG 3.0 - 2.4 APG 8.0 - 3.1 SPG 1.71 - 1.06 BPG .11 - .06 FG% .382 - .390 FT% .792 - .923 3P% .295 - .333 MPG 34.4 - 27.7 I'm gonna stick with Bibby.
