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JVG's offense simply sucks!!!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by reptilexcq, Dec 13, 2003.

  1. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

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    I've never heard anything like that either...and I listen to 610 pretty often.
     
  2. reptilexcq

    reptilexcq Member

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    I guess this confirm you can't have it both way. But the Kings do play great defense, they were one of the top defense in the league last year i believe.

    Regarding the Rox's defense...I don't think it's really so much about playing great defense as it is slowing down the tempo of the game and burning up time and thereby lowering the number of shots taking and so lowering the scoring overall. This is why the Rox's overall scoring is also suffering too because they're taking just as fewer shots due to slowering down tempo of the game. So did the Rox really play great defense??? Or is it a misconception?

    The Kings on the other hand, play an uptempo type of game and therefore have more shots taking and so the scoring overall is higher. So because of their fast tempo offense, this also mean their opponents are getting just as much chance of shots taking as the Kings do and so it is no coincidence that their scoring overall is also up. This has nothing to do with playing great defense as much as it is about tempo of the game.

    So don't be compare Rox's defense against Kings' defense and determine which is better base on the points allow because that's a misconception. If you want to compare which defense is better...compare 2 teams that play with the same tempo type of game. Spurs' and Rox's defense are comparable since they both are playing slow tempo game.
     
  3. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Let's use an example to compare the Rockets and Kings defense.

    A lightbulb at home.

    The Rockets keep the switch on all day (defense). The wiring is perfect, the bulb works great. They keep it on all day. However, this wears on the electricity bill.

    The Kings on the other hand, have the exact same switch, and the exact same lightbulb. The difference? They turn it on at night (when needed) and turn it off in the mornings/afternoons (when not needed). This way, they save a little energy, and they keep their elictricity bill where they like it - at an efficient level.


    We're growing. We need to play like this for a season, then we'll realize that we can hold opponents below 80ppg with regularity. However, we'll need to know when to crank up the intensity and when to keep it on cruise control. This way, we save some energy for the offense.
     
  4. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Member

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    I can see where many fans would prefer that since Mobley has been playing better than Steve of late, but Francis's contract is too big for any other team to take on.

    Cat's contract is more "friendly" which makes him easier to trade. I think he signed a 5 or 6 year deal for like 38 million?

    So mobley and other role players will be the fall men if the Rockets miss the playoffs again.
     
  5. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

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    6 year 31 million. Will be a free agent in 06'. 5 mil/year for a good consistent SG. I don't think we'd trade him unless we got something pretty good in return. Still, having Mobes on the team give us the salary flexiblity to pay for other players...IMO we need to try to find a way to get rid of Steve and free up the 12/mil a year to get a quality player. At least one that isn't among the worst at his position in the NBA.
     
  6. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    from the Knicks:
    Charlie Ward
    Howard Eisley
    Clarence Weatherspoon
    Kurt Thomas
    Othella Harrington

    from the Rockets
    Steve Francis
    Moochie
    Maurice

    It allows Van Gundy to strengthen the power forward position from a defensive standpoint and he gets a competent passing point guard in Charlie Ward who he knows from his days in New York.

    PG Ward Eisley
    SG Cuttino Piatkowski
    SF JJ Weatherspoon
    PF Kurt Thomas Othella Harrington
    C Yao Cato

    Salaries match up for the next year if Charlie Ward signs a 2 year contract for around $4 million/year. All the contracts expire after 2 seasons which allows for financial flexibility if a big free agents comes out after the 2005-2006 season.
     
  7. egn

    egn Member

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    Ward backs up Eisley in NY
     
  8. aeroman10

    aeroman10 Member

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    I think that would be pretty cool. I would sign him for 10 days minimum pay and see what happens...Cant get any worse than it is now.
     
  9. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I'm not saying Ward is a great PG, but he seemed to play well in Van Gundy's system. The goal of that trade is not to improve the overall talent at point guard. The goal is to improve the entire team and create financial flexibility after 2 seasons. Having Maurice, Steve, and Moochie's contracts prevents the Rockets from getting premium free agents when the opportunity arrives.
     
  10. GRAYsquirrel

    GRAYsquirrel Member

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    TOTALLY! Not to Dennis Rodman (although I've suggested the
    Worm half-jokingly several times before), but to the fact that we have NO SPARK! I was unfortunate enough to be at the game in SA, and I was so frustrated and embarassed at our total lack of intensity...

    We were totally lifeless, no spark or fire in us at all. I was the only one wearing a red rox shirt in a sea of silver spur fans, and I just didn't have anything to cheer about. It was embarassing as hell. We were soooo lackadaisical out there, like we were zombies. Even my friend from out of town who was with me commented that we looked totally dead and lifeless out there. We need a spark!!! Get somebody, or light a fire in these bums' asses!!!!!!!
     
  11. edc

    edc Member

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    It was a direct quote. It came in explanation for the Rockets getting *four* points off the break for the entire game. It was said (at least in part) out of frustration, but the main thrust was that (to him) the quick points from 5-on-4 or 4-on-3 are not ultimately beneficial in any way except on the scoreboard.

    I don't see that as being at odds with telling the team to "push it." I do see it as typifying many of the problems with JVG's offensive scheme though.
     
  12. Relativist

    Relativist Member

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    The Rocks lead the league in Opp. FG% at .391. If it were just a matter of slowing the game down by itself, Opp. FG% wouldn't be so low.
     
  13. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    Hmm...let's think about this. What's the problems with our offense? Poor shooting, silly turnovers, bad passing, not playing hard and too much 1 on 1. Is it "Van Gundy's offense" causing those things? Aren't those the same problems that we've had for several years? Would any offense be consistently good with those problems?

    Van Gundy has been true to his word and he came in without making any assumptions regarding the players based on past history. Everybody got a clean slate. Now he's got to give them a chance to prove themselves one way or the other. Things will either change or Van Gundy will make changes...simple as that. Since the day he got here, JVG has said that they are trying to get closer to a championship, not just to make the playoffs. He's looking at the long haul here, not just trying to do whatever it takes to make the playoffs this year.

    The Rockets obviously have alot of talent on the roster, but that's no guarentee of success. Too many of our players have similar strengths, but also have the same weaknesses...so we have some holes. Van Gundy's already stated what his philosophy will be: surround Yao with good shooters and good passers and play great defense. Right now, night in and night out, we're only able to really do one of those things.

    Will JVG be able to fix things with a single trade or in a couple of months? Probably not. But it's the same situation as when a new coach takes over if football, you can't really judge him until he has a chance to bring in his kind of players. Will alot of our players learn how to shoot or pass or play intelligently? It's possible, but not probable. If I had to make a guess, then I'd say that Van Gundy will eventually bring in some shooters that know how to pass the ball and play intelligently.

    I'm not really sure what type of offense people expect to see the Rockets run right now. We don't have nearly the passing skills or basketball IQ to run a Sacramento type offense, our players are awful at running the break and we don't shoot the ball well in the half court. Van Gundy is still giving the players a chance to prove themselves. Some of them will get it and stick around, others won't get it and he'll replace them, but it's not going to happen over night.
     
  14. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I think Van Gundy got Rudy T's playbook. If you really looked at this offense in detail and compared it to last year's offense, it looks the same to me. There's a little bit of low post to Yao. There's some isolation by Steve and Cuttino. There are some plays run off screens, but I think Rudy T's offense incorporated screens too. Cato is shooting jumpers in this offense more. Maurice still does his same post up moves. Is it any wonder that other NBA teams have managed to lock down this team? The gametapes they had of Rudy's Rockets look exactly the same as Van Gundy's Rockets.
     
  15. jkckwong

    jkckwong Member

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    In the two losing games against Spurs, I didn't see any offense played in any system. What I saw was that Rox offense being executed in a rush manner. In a word, they were doing wrong things at the right time and right things at the wrong time. They were panicking. So they now need to regroup and start everything again following basketball basics and JVG's originial offense plan, which was all forgotten and did not exist in the last two games.
     
  16. Almu

    Almu Member

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    Great time to panic. Nice. 20 games in and RocketRich is already comparing this team to the 92-93 team...that um...went to the ECF? Or is he comparing it to the um..team of 94? Who went to the finals? OH! He is talking about GUNDY! Not RILEY! Oh, ok. So, maybe he is comparing them to all of Gundys teams that went to the playoffs with 10 percent of the talent he has here? The one from the Finals that had 40 percent of the talent he has here? Is it that team? I mean, why would we ever want to go to Finals and playoffs every year. Can we wait a little to see? Or have you given up on the season, Rich? Everyone? Given up on Gundy? Hmm..ok.

    Cuz last time I checked, this is 15 percent of the season, on the first year where his players were use to missing playoffs and running whatever damn play they wanted.

    Oh yea. I want to go back to that. Lets fire Gundy. Hell, lets fire Dawson. He brought him here. Hell, lets hope Gundy quits. Why not. Lets get in here....lets see...HEY! How about Byron Scott! He is gonna be fired here in Jersey for making the Finals two years in a row!!! Then, we can get him to leave also cuz he preaches the exact same damn thing Gundy does. The difference is that his point guard PLAYS the game the way a point guard is supposed to. Oh. And Jefferson....who RUDY T traded away for the great, awesome Eddie Griffith...plays hard 24/7.

    Yea. I say we just keep changing coaches until we get one that just lets the guys do whatever they want on the floor. It was better that way. No really. It was.

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. spydermex

    spydermex Member

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    why does steve struggle if yao doesnt get that many more touches than from last year, well to go along that steve struggles with JVG's offense wudnt Cat struggle too and yet he doesnt
     
  18. pasox2

    pasox2 Member
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    We could of had Larry Brown... but they had to interview Paul Silas before committing.

    ugh.
     
  19. Harry

    Harry Member

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    we were 7th in defense last year
     
  20. ROCKET RICH NYC

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    :rolleyes:

    JVG never had to coach against the west on a regular basis and while the Knicks made it to the playoffs in the WEAK EAST his last full season, they were definitely not even a Top 12 team in the West. Furthermore, JVG didn't coach the Knicks when the NBA changed the rules with the Zone, etc. I don't believe JVG will ever be productive against the West teams PERIOD as proven yes 20 games into this season. Is there a reason why we can only beat EAST TEAMS and not the upper echelon West teams? You can bet that there will be personnel changes because as I said before the season, the ONLY player that is untouchable in JVG eyes is Yao. With that being said, until JVG get's an assistant coach that can run an offense better than him, this team is going to be mediocre at best. I don't just blame JVG but his coaching staff too.

    Yes the players are the ones that actually play and not the coaches. Yes its up to the players to execute the plays that the COACH calls. THAT is why I blame JVG and why I was NEVER A FAN of this coach. He's the one that calls up the plays, manages the time, etc. He's the one that is supposed to TEACH the players. I just don't think his style relates to this group of players or this conference. Just like Pat Riley....JVG is OUTDATED with this generation of NBA players and in the CURRENT NBA. Until he learns the west and can RE-INVENT himself as a coach, he's going to fail miserably. However, I don't think his ego will let him re-invent himself. So in the meantime, we will set back and continue to watch him trade players to fit his SCHEME and his coaching style. I'm here to say that unless he can bring back his 95-96 Knick team out of the closet and can change the NBA Rules back to the way they were, his teams will always be mediocre.

    Now if the Rockets realign to the EAST, maybe we'd have a chance for a championship but we all know that ain't happening.
     

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