You mean, besides the fact that T-Mac turned into an injured p***y and Yao decided to take some seasons off? And even then, I guess you didn't read my post the page before? JVG's average offensive efficiency with the Rockets was #22. Adelman's efficiency average was #16. The only way you can say that Adelman couldn't generate a better offense is also the implication that the GM is 100% responsible for all talent coming in. That Adelman had no part in developing Brooks, Landry, Scola, etc. You also have to make the assumption the fact that JVG is totally blameless in the lack of talent flowing in during the Dawson era. Personally, I'd like to think that the coach has something to do with it too. Maybe not 50/50, but at least 30/70 coach/GM ratio. Case in point, Adelman was able to succeed in NBA purgatory that is the Sacramento Kings, filled with a crappy roster, and turned it into a championship contender in just a couple of years. He left after a string of playoffs, and the Kings have been lottery teams ever since. Same GM, different coaches, different results.
Pretty much. Yao is a needy player and he kills the pace of any offense. On the other hand he is effecient when everything is right. Defensively, even whe he missed time in 05-06, they had deke and the principles of the way they play defense. The opp fg% didn't change because they had deke. When yao has gone down in the adelman era, adelman replaced him with 2 of the worse defensive players in landry and scola and the layup drill always starts. Both have their strong points, but when the rockets lose now, i feel like they get outcoached sometimes. The playoff game when he had landry in vs deke. I know what he was thinking that they get the rebound,bring it up and run the play called in the previous stopped ball. The problem is the attention to detail about securing the rebound. Just saying
yao didn't kill the pace of offense in his rookie seasons, but JVG did it. then yao became slower and slower JUST BECUZ OF JVG! and actually RA's system doesn't need a low-post center, so we got a problem now. anyway i miss Rudy T.
Houston Rockets Pace (i.e. possessions per 48 minutes) rank among NBA teams: 1999-2000: 9th (Steve Francis' rookie season) 2000-2001: 20th 2001-2002: 28th 2002-2003: 25th (Yao Ming's rookie season) 2003-2004: 25th (JVG's first year as Rocket) 2004-2005: 24th (McGrady's first year as Rocket) 2005-2006: 28th 2006-2007: 21st 2007-2008: 21st (Adelman's first season) 2008-2009: 19th (Artest joins team, McGrady injured much of the year) 2009-2010: 6th The Rockets have been a slow paced team for much of the past decade, under Rudy T, JVG, or Adelman. And this happened with or without Yao Ming, with or without Francis, and with or without McGrady.
heyyyyyy..yea what ever happened to that fast paced(up-tempo) basketball we were promised when adelman became coach?
I'll take your word for it though it seems that Gay for Battier trade is very JVGesque. Defense over offense. I agree though that the influence on personnel decisions is not the same for every move, it may vary depending on the importance of the trade just as there is more due diligence conducted when you are investing more substantial sums. It seems like the classic argument against coach Phil Jackson that many of his critics make , he had a good roster so it isn't really his coaching. To see is to believe. There is more cohesion on offense now under rick adelman than there was under JVG. JVG just couldn't think out of the box which is a recipe for playoff failure under the current system.
Adelman simply doesn't get the respect he deserves. He is a class act and also a Hall of Fame coach according to JVG. http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/05/15/the-rockets-mvp-rick-adelman/ It's time to give Rockets coach Rick Adelman some credit before it's too late. After all, who knows what's going to happen Sunday? But it must be noted that he's doing quite the job on the bench this postseason, like he's done time and time before. The mere fact that Adelman has been able to guide the Rockets to two victories over the L.A. Lakers since Yao Ming went down makes Houston's coach the MVP of this series right now. It was one thing to shock the Lakers in Game 4 on Sunday, the first game without Yao. It's quite another to handle the Lakers again in Game 6 on Thursday -- by a score of 95-80 -- to force an anything-can-happen Game 7 back in L.A. Rockets 95, Lakers 80: Recap | Box Score Series Tied 3-3 | Next Game: Sunday @ Los Angeles, 3:30 PM ET Somehow Adelman has managed to win 860 NBA games as a coach and go to the playoffs 16 times in 18 years and yet still not get the credit he deserves. And he certainly deserves credit for what he's done this season, and these playoffs, with the Rockets. Adelman guided the Rockets to 53 wins despite losing Tracy McGrady in February and dealing with other injuries to Shane Battier and Ron Artest. Adelman's starting point guard, Rafer Alston, was traded at the deadline. The Rockets went into the series against the Blazers as an underdog but won it in six games. They weren't given much of a chance against the Lakers, either, yet Adelman has his team one win from pulling off the stunner of the 2009 postseason. The first thing you notice if you've been watching the Rockets is how hard they're playing and how much they're scrapping and competing. That's not something that was borne out of Yao's injury. Fact is, Houston's been playing hard the whole series against the Lakers, and they played hard the entire series against Portland. While we're at it, ditto for the regular season. The point is that the Rockets' tenacity is a direct reflection of Adelman. You don't play as hard as the Rockets do unless you have a certain amount of respect for your head coach. Adelman has refused to allow his team to give into the injury excuse, even though they have every right to use it. It bears repeating that players such as Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Chuck Hayes and Von Wafer are giving the Lakers all they can handle. Getting role players to play hard is one thing. But Adelman always has had a way of getting his best players to commit to him. Whether we're talking about Buck Williams and Clyde Drexler in Portland or Chris Webber and Vlade Divac in Sacramento or Ron Artest and Yao in Houston, Adelman has gotten it done everywhere he's coached. Well, except for Golden State, but that certainly says more about the Warriors than Adelman. His only two non-playoff years were when he coached the Warriors in 1995-96 and 1996-97. I covered Adelman during his two years with the Warriors, and if there was one thing that stuck out about him it was this: He treated players like grown-ups. As a rule, the NBA players who were adults thrived under Adelman; those who were immature and/or selfish didn't. He's not a yeller or screamer, he's not into drama and he doesn't play games. You ask him a question, and he'll answer it. If he wants you to do something, he'll tell you what he wants you to do. Adelman has no ego, and he never feels the need to take credit for a win. It's just not his style. It's probably the old point guard in him, making sure others get involved before he takes care of himself. One of the criticisms you sometimes hear about Adelman is that he's not a master tactician or strategist, and that he can be a coach who "just rolls the ball out there and let's his guys play." Not really. It's just that Adelman is comfortable giving his players decision-making responsibilities. He's not an obsessive play-caller like some coaches. He gives his players a basic framework with which to work in, and they're free to go from there. Apparently, Adelman's better with the X's and O's than most fans think. Kobe Bryant made a point after Game 3 to talk about how Adelman is very good at making adjustments. Bryant said he knew that because Adelman used to make a lot of good ones back during the Kings-Lakers rivalry. I remember once having a long conversation with former point guard Rod Strickland, who played under Adelman in Portland. Strickland had a reputation as a player who was difficult to coach, but interestingly, he never had a problem with Adelman. "Rick's good people," Strickland told me. "He talks to you like a man and treats you like a man." Adelman was the runner-up in the Coach of the Year voting this year, finishing second to Cleveland's Mike Brown. It was the fourth time in his career Adelman had finished second in that voting. Doesn't matter. ESPN analyst and former coach Jeff Van Gundy said it very simply midway through the fourth quarter of Thursday's Game 6. "Rick Adelman," Van Gundy said, "is a Hall of Fame coach." Yes, he is. Even if he doesn't get the respect he deserves.
1) You're committing the same mistake that others have committed in that you assume that McGrady & Yao didn't start to get injured until 2008. Simply not true. 2(a). The average is a bit distorting. First, the sample size is tiny, and it includes some pretty mediocre squads like the 2006 throwaway season where Stromile was to lead us to the promised land. That was just a bad team with almost no offensive talent, you could have put Phil Jackson there and they would have been awful on offense. Like I said previously - the best comparison between the two is to see what they did with the same players. And lo and behold - they produced the same result with the same offensive efficiency. What does that tel you then about their respective impact vis-a-vis the players? 2(b). Even if we use the average number, Adelman's effiency number is incredibly mediocre. For a guy who is an offensive genius to not even be able to get his team into the top half gives you a lot of explaining to do.
Same players: never happened 2007 Rockets, sorted by minutes played 1 Rafer Alston 2 Shane Battier 3 Tracy McGrady 4 Luther Head 5 Juwan Howard 6 Chuck Hayes 7 Yao Ming 8 Dikembe Mutombo 9 Bonzi Wells 10 Kirk Snyder 2008 rockets 1 Shane Battier 2 Rafer Alston 3 Tracy McGrady 4 Yao Ming 5 Luis Scola 6 Chuck Hayes 7 Luther Head 8 Bonzi Wells 9 Landry 10 Dikembe Mutombo Why would you say something so obviously untrue? Deliberately lying or just ignorant? I mean you hardly have to go to basketball reference to realize that the Rockets rotation didn't change much from 2007 to 2008. Hell not only are 8 out of 10 players the exact same, the fact is that in 2008 the PF position got massively upgraded by swapping out Howard and Kirk Snyder for Scola and Landry.
How do you call this same? Scola and Landry never happened in 2007. If you look closely other than the names of the players, 2007 was JVG's last year. 2008 was Adelman's first year. 2007 team was a team tailored for JVG. 2008 team was a team not suitable for Adelman. 2007 team won 52 games and first round exit with Yao and TMAC. 2008 team won 55 games and first round exit without Yao. not same team, not same results.
Was it Morey's first offseason (as a head GM, not assistant) when Jeff was replaced by Rick? For a board that loves Morey so much, there are a lot of Rick haters. I don't miss Jeff. Him and Juwan Howard are the reason why we don't got Brandon Roy.
who cares the role players. the team and the playoffs are supposed to be for the stars, Yao and TMAC. Any other coach would have won something with young Yao-TMAC. JVG sucked with the Rockets. His firing was well deserved. Adelman caught the tail of Yao-TMAC combo, what happened? 22 win streak. Adelman had coached the 2008-2009 with the last glance of a dominant center. what happened? 2nd round playoff. That's how you use or help Yao and TMAC.
LOL - so your argument is that the 2008 team (which featured the exact same players playing a similar proportion of minutes other than Howard) is not the personnel equivalent of the 2007 team, since it had the handicap of not having Juwan Howard and had to instead make do with Luis Scola and Carl Landry? And please, unless you're a professional proctologist - let's just not bring up Yao's performances vs. the Jazz of that era. Not a place where YOF's want to tread. Though I hope for his sake, Boozer and Okur are still sending him thank-you cards after signing their next contracts.
It's because of this that I brought out JVG and Adelman's career numbers, since they provide a much more relevant sample size. Unfortunately, many somehow believe that because Adelman was handed superior offensive players on a silver platter(as if he had nothing to do with them being great offensive players), that doesn't seem to matter with most. So yes, it's a small sample size, which one can argue either way without being technically wrong. Except it's not. Because the sample size is so small it's pretty much irrelevant. And even then, we're talking about a JVG team that was pretty much together for 2-3 years vs Adelman still feeling his way around the roster in his first year. Only to decide that the team should play JVG-style in his first year because that's what the players are used to. Also, if what you say is relevant, then I can claim that JVG is simply not a better coach than Rudy even in his late years here. Rudy 02-03 Rockets: 43 wins. 14th offense/14th defense JVG 03-04 Rockets: 45 wins. 24th offense/5th defense I can go even further. With the same roster, Rudy(16-14) and Chaney(26-26) pretty much produced the same results in 91-92. Using tiny sample sizes produce pretty unreliable results. I won't bother responding to this since it's a different discussion all-together. If you want to make a new thread regarding Adelman's crappy overrated offense, I might decide to chime in.
The 2007 Yao-TMAC are not exactly the same as 2008 Yao-TMAC. No matter how many minutes they played. It is simple as that. "Same" never happened in any player. Also, playoffs are where the team should be measured. Since Yao did not play in 2008 playoffs, they were not the same team. Yeah, I doubted Yao's ability too. However, watching what an injury plagued Yao had done under Adelman, I believe JVG was the one that was holding him back. Boozer and Okur are sending the thank-you cards to JVG who is not coaching anymore.
I don't think he had much to do with Scola or Landry being better offensive players, do you? Scola was a 28 year old veteran, Landry sort of exploded as a youngster, but I wouldn't really put much of it down to Adelman spending long hours in the gym with him, he was a 4-year college guy who basically did the same thing there that he did here. Actually this only serves to reinforce something I've been saying from page 1, changing the coach doesn't even have anywhere close to the impact that changing the players does. Get Rudy's crap players? Get Rudy's results. Inherit JVG's bunch? You have a defensive team. Leading to my next point, the lack of an true offensive juggernaut from Rick 4 years in. Well, people in this thread have been praising him as an offensive genius (and the converse is true for defense), but the numbers indicate otherwise, so have at it if you want, it's as good a place as any.
