I sorted by teams, but it seems that was a mistake since you obviously didn't bother looking at the Rockets numbers either. I only mentioned their coaching history because there was an obvious trend. JVG in NY and Houston, while Adelman in Portland, Sacramento, Golden State, and Houston. But even if we ignore their lengthy coaching record, Adelman is obviously the superior offensive coach even in Houston. It's pretty baffling to me that this is even debatable. Oh well, I guess JVG was the more fan-friendly coach. So you have to expect some bias views.
Nice sidestep..... CONCLUSION: JVG is no way in hell a better offensive coach then Adelman. The reason I asked the Adelman naysayers that is because I wanted to see if ur loyalty for JVG would prevent you from admitting the obvious, which is the Rockets have become a much better offensive team since Adelman took over. We SUCKED offensivley under JVG and if you think we didnt your either being stubborn or a idiot. Defensivley JVG is a better coach. But he never adjusted his style since his Knicks days. His slow "grind it out" style was only beneficial late 90's. When he came to the Rockets the West had become the home of many powerhouses. While other teams got stronger and more athletic, JVG never adjusted. He'd give playing time to a washed up old player for his "mental awareness" and sit a incredibly gifted young player because he missed a defensive assignment. He put all his cards on defensive and let Mcgrady do ALL the work on offensive. We consistently stunk up the league offensivley. Adelman has done a fantastic job getting better at the same time rebuilding. He's actually ADJUSTED this team to be able to win without depending on Yao or Tmac (which JVG couldnt effectivley do). I'm convinced the ONLY reason you people say JVG is a better coach is for his PERSONALITY. You liked his sense of humor and you're letting that cloud ur judgement on a pure basketball related question (which alot of you do ). Not sure.....I dont follow the Warriors nor do i ever have plans too
We'd be yelling the same **** for Scola, Brooks, Landry, and Budinger had we still kept JVG and drafted those players.
Yes, you mean those days before your join date.... This argument is a waste, you won't get JVG lovers to see that he is not the best coach of all time, what's done is done...he was fired...the team moved on.......got to do the same. DD
Really? Van Gundy gave young Luther Head minutes, he gave young Chuck Hayes minutes. While with the Knicks, he gave minutes to younger players like Marcu Camby, Kurt Thomas, and Charlie Ward. He gave minutes to players who deserved minutes. What makes you think Scola, Brooks Landry and Budiner would not get minutes? The guy you people b**** about didn't deserve any minutes. Spanoulis insisted on going home. Boki didn't get much burn after traded from Houston 2 season later with the Nets (where he finally achieved 20 mpg status). Was there any young player that you people (or Knicks fans) clamored for that Van Gundy didn't play but turned out to be great NBA assets that the team missed out on?
Then can you explain to me why Adelman hasn't been able to generate a significant improvement in the team's offensive efficiency? I mean i"ve been asking this question for 10 pages now and nobody's been able to do it. The best we've got is some 12-year old trying to explain to us that "efficiency is 4 stat nerds" and Tinky-WinkyTakota angrily typing "YORE FIRED !!!111!!" over and over again.
And what exaclty was our offensive efficiency under JVG scoring 80 points a game and constantly at the bottom of the league in points scored?
Typical. Step 1: Start dead horse argument. Step 2: Repeatedly state cliche position not backed up by any objective evidence in large number of posts in thread. Step 3: Declaring argument a wast while telling people who disagree with him to move on because it's a dead horse argument.
It's only been posted about 10 times in this thread. So you are either comprehension-impaired or suffering from a head injury that has inihibited your short-term memory . That said, I'll courteously do it for you again - the answer is that we were around 15th in the league. Adelman's results? 14th to 16th.
As Carl Herrera pointed out, JVG gave minutes to young players when they deserved it. OTOH he probably would've demanded a higher level of defensive effort from the guys you mentioned. JVG's also known to be very loyal to his players. For example, he absolutely hated it when the Knicks traded away Charles Oakley to get Marcus Camby from Toronto. So I'm not sure how he would've felt about Alston getting moved for Lowry and giving the starting spot to Brooks.
Uh, you are barking up the wrong tree Lassie....I did not start the argument, and the evidence is open to anyone's interpetation of said evidence. I am saying move on, because the organization moved on.....they made the decision to fire JVG, and Morey and Les moved quickly to bring in Adelman. We had this argument like 3 years ago....has it changed anyone's mind? Not judging by the folks in this very thread who are clamoring for JVG, and not those of us who are glad he was fired.... Got to love the offseason....woot ! DD
Pockets of people still want VSpan, Wafer, McGrady, Swift, and want Delonte West and Shaq. There will always be someone who wants Player/Coach X on the Rockets... I have very un-fond memories of watching JVG's offense work. At times I had to avert my eyes while the team was on the offensive end, and thank fate's mercy if the ball managed to go in the basket. I like JVG a lot as a commentator and possibly a defensive coach, but Adelman is much superior all around (offense, player acquisitions, using his bench, match-up management, player relations). There were times when JVG seemed to have forgotten that he had a bench. Then again his bench was beyond trash because of the players that had been acquired to sit on it.
Rick Adelman is a great coach and we are lucky to have him. I had the same sentiment back when we had JVG. Seriously, these are one of those arguments that will never die, but we as Rockets fans should be thankful that our last two head coaches were more than competent at their jobs. What the Adelman lovers/JVG haters aren't willing to acknowledge is Alexander firing JVG and hiring Adelman was nothing more than a lateral move, and the stats prove it. What about playoff success? Sure, Adelman's recent team got to the 2nd round without a positive contribution from McGrady and a hobbled Yao, while we couldn't get out of the 1st round with McGrady/Yao healthy. To say this proves Adelman is better ignores some extremely important information. Namely, how deep and talented our role players are now compared to back then (and blaming JVG for that is ridiculous). It's quite simple - JVG was stuck coaching a roster filled with scrub role players thanks to Carroll Dawson, while Adelman had the luxury of coaching talent given to him by a much more competent GM. Spoiler
I deliberately didn't even look into this thread until now because I knew it would quickly descend into venom, brutal bias, downright dementia. You know it is the off-season when there is nothing better to do here than having a fight over whoever the previous coach was and whoever the current coach is, and who was "better." I suppose people have simply compared their coaching records since becoming a head coach in the NBA? Did someone do that, or was that simply too "simple." Jeff Van Gundy: Regular season - 430-318 - .575% Playoff record - 44-44 - .500% 1 - EC Champions Best regular season record - .600% Van Gundy took one year away from coaching between the Knicks and the Rockets, and hasn't coached since. Rick Adelman: Regular season - 902-577 - .610% Playoff record - 79-78 - .503% 2 - WC Champions Best regular season record - .625% Adelman took one year away from coaching between each coaching job during his career. Never more than one season, working continuously from the '88-'89 season to the present. Just looking at the above summary, is there really an honest debate that is worth having over who has had the better career up to this point? Except for splitting hairs and making excuses until the cows come home, I don't think so.
The question asked was which coach had the better offensive team, not who was the superior offensive coach. Perhaps you're baffled at my answer because you misread the question. JVG had 4 years here, and Adelman has had 3. I was asked whether our offense was better after Adelman became coach. How do I make sense of such a question? I can look at the averages over their respective years, as you did. I don't know how useful that is, considering the instability in our roster, both across seasons due to player turnover, and within seasons due to injury. Alternatively, I could compare the offense of specific teams, which is what I did (briefly). I think that's more useful for discussion, though perhaps its not as satisfying to those who feel the urge to pick a side in this JVG vs Adelman battle. And I like both as coaches. I appreciate the amount of work and attention to detail that JVG put into it. With JVG, I always felt that the Rockets were well prepared to be competitive, even if there was a talent deficit on the floor. And I appreciate Adelman's willingness to accommodate the offensive talents of all his players, and the trust he puts in his staff and the players on the floor to figure things out. If I had to choose one as having the more successful coaching run with the Rockets, I'll take Adelman (22-game win streak, 2nd round).
Just to have an honest debate. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/coaches.html Adelman's win loss percentage with the rockets so far is 61% JVG's win loss percentage with the rockets was 55.5% As for adelman's year off, the chronicle has this story. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4934088.html Year off allowed Adelman to size up Rockets' new guard. With a year to sit back and watch the NBA from stands and sofas, Rick Adelman studied the game and players, imagining how he would do things when he was back. He watched the league take another step toward speed this past season and considered his offense fitting with the trend. He also saw something else he might not have imagined becoming useful. From Portland, Ore., Adelman could not help but notice the point guard at the University of Oregon. Months later, with the first draft pick since Adelman became the Rockets' coach, they chose the Ducks' Aaron Brooks, and this time when Adelman was picturing a player running his offense, he eventually will be. "I was really impressed with the level he played at," Adelman said. "I think he's got skills that are hard to guard. He's fast. He's quick. He really improved his shooting last year. I think he's going to add a real element. We want to push the ball more. We want to run more, have a little more activity. He gives us that. "I think any player that has the speed and quickness that he possesses with the ball, it's pretty easy. There's a lot of things he can do that puts him in situations that he can attack the basket." The Rockets brought Brooks and second-round pick Carl Landry, a power forward from Purdue, to town Friday. As for the acquisition of rafer alston, it was JVG who signed off on the trade after conferring with his brother Stan. So much for the myth that coaches do not influence player acquisitions.
The Tale of Two Pointguards and how they landed in houston source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafer_Alston Alston was traded to the Houston Rockets for guard Mike James on October 4, 2005. Although Alston frequently was criticized for his attitude while in Toronto, it is believed that Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy conferred with his brother, Miami Heat coach Stan Van Gundy, who coached Alston during the 2003–04 NBA season, about Alston's work ethic and attitude. Jeff Van Gundy's reputation for toughness and his ability to get the most out of players previously considered "trouble-makers" or "temperamental" (e.g., Latrell Sprewell) led to optimism on the part of the Rockets' staff. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4934088.html With a year to sit back and watch the NBA from stands and sofas, Rick Adelman studied the game and players, imagining how he would do things when he was back. He watched the league take another step toward speed this past season and considered his offense fitting with the trend. He also saw something else he might not have imagined becoming useful. From Portland, Ore., Adelman could not help but notice the point guard at the University of Oregon. Months later, with the first draft pick since Adelman became the Rockets' coach, they chose the Ducks' Aaron Brooks, and this time when Adelman was picturing a player running his offense, he eventually will be. "I was really impressed with the level he played at," Adelman said. "I think he's got skills that are hard to guard. He's fast. He's quick. He really improved his shooting last year. I think he's going to add a real element. We want to push the ball more. We want to run more, have a little more activity. He gives us that. "I think any player that has the speed and quickness that he possesses with the ball, it's pretty easy. There's a lot of things he can do that puts him in situations that he can attack the basket." The Rockets brought Brooks and second-round pick Carl Landry, a power forward from Purdue, to town Friday.
Adelman is CLEARLY the better overall coach. Again, the only thing JVG fans cling to his personality. But under JVG Rafer would still be brickin tear drops with Luther Head turning the ball over every time he dribbles. Yet his groupies have yet to explain how hes the better coach
