Give it up. There's no cure for mental r****dation. Some people are genetically incapable of understanding basic concepts like these. So stop trying to educate them.
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=3462589&postcount=9 [rquoter] Daryl_Morey: best way to judge offense and defense is points/poss scored and given up per possession. [/rquoter]
Ur a clown. How many other teams has Ryan Bowen started for in a playoffs other than a JVG coached team? JVG had WAY too much trust in Bowen just like all the other washed up scrubs HE decided to bring in. You've convinced yourself you've won this debate but. STILL haven't made a clear cut reason why JVG is a better coach than Rick adelman.
Bowen started in the playoffs because we had virtually nothing at that position: Ryan Bowen Scott Padgett Clarence Weatherspoon Vin Baker Padgett started 4 games that series, Bowen started 3 games that series. Neither started in a playoff game in any other year. Weatherspoon was pretty much washed up, and he retired after that season. Same with Vin Baker, he was a mess. Now, you list the depth at PF on Bowen's other teams for comparison, and we can decide whether your argument has any merit.
that's how efficiency of the offense is defined. best offense = most efficient offense , this is pretty reasonable, but that's only one way do define "best offense". Best offense can also be defined as the best throughput of the offense. It makes some sense too. In the end, the game is going to be decided by the total score, not how you get those scores. The pursue of maximum possessions, fastest paces and putting up quick scores is one exciting direction to go in NBA. In that sense, I admire Golden states offense.
Virtually nothing at the position? But you just listed 3 other candidates that could've started other than Bowen lmao. Padgett was the obvious choice to start, but on a Bowen was a JVG favorite. It was a terrible move by JVG.
I was worried at this point. And then it all made sense. You're absolutely right. Defense wasn't our strength, it was our weakness, too. I tried to convey such a point but you used better words. I agree with that entire post btw, yes, the stuff I left out.
Rockets won 2 of 3 games with Bowen starting, including stealing the first 2 games on the road. They won 1 out of 4 games with Padgett starting, losing once at home and all 3 on the road. Terrible move? Not by the results. Why should I answer your question, when you choose not to answer mine?
Its the best way to measure it, as our GM said. Generally speaking, a team will get the same number of possessions as their opponent in a game. Therefore, the best team is one that is able to use its possessions more effectively (i.e. score more per possession). Points per game is simply a product of how fast the team plays, and how effective/efficient their offense is. Playing faster will mean you score more points, but there's nothing inherently advantageous about playing faster. It doesn't make sense to say that playing faster => more points/game => better offense, if the "better offense" doesn't also give the team an advantage. What gives you an advantage over the other team is using your possessions more efficiently, not simply playing faster. I don't know how many other ways I can say it, or how I can make it clearer.
But I've asked you three times already..Simple question, "Are the Rockets a better offensive team under Adelman" (coming from JVG's style of play). The 1st time i asked you brought up Golden State Others in this thread are too foolishly stubborn to admit the obvious improvement we've made offensivley under coach Adelman. Which is why i asked you directly. Hopefully i'll get a one word yes or no.
LOL the ignorance of posters here continue to amaze, especially guys like this who can come up with cogent arguments. There's a difference between PPG and efficiency, in the same way that there's a difference between Streve Francis' 25 and Kevin Martin's 24 PPG. They may have scored the same points per game, but Francis will have to take like 30 shots to 25, while Kevin Martin will only need 18. Which one do you think is the better player? Of course francis scored higher, however the shots Kevin Martin didn't use could have gone to another player, generating more points for the team. The point Durvasa is saying is the same thing as this: efficiency counts more than PPG regarding team offense. Saying Don Nelson is an elite offensive coach just because his team plays at a faster pace and shoots more is wrong because his team actually just wastes shots. What the warriors do all day is just run around and jack up shots, of course they'll score a lot of points, but they'll also miss a lot, and those rebounds the enemy gets will turn into fastbreak points for their side. At the end of the day, no matter how high their team scores, the opponent will have a higher score, resulting the Warriors' miserable record under Nelson. JVG teams' may have indeed scored low points, but with their D and how effcient their offense is the opponent usually ends up scoring lower. To get the 4rth seed in one of the most contested western conferences ever wasn't that bad, considering the team had T-mac, Yao and a bunch of scrubs. Had the team had Scola, Landry and Brooks liek it does now, I'm sure JVG would have gone higher in the playoffs.
I don't remember you asking me this question before I asked you about Golden State. But since you insist, I'll answer it. Some of Adelman's teams have been better on offense than some of JVG's teams. And vice versa. I'll take the offense from our 04/05 team over the offense on last year's team. I'll take last year's offense over our offense in 05/06. Now, your turn: The Warriors were 2nd in PPG last year. They were 14th in offensive efficiency. Which ranking do you think is closer to the mark for their offense -- 2nd or 14th?
This looks like the type of talk you hear out of a politician. It isn't technically wrong. But you're obviously implying something that's about as far from the truth as possible. Adelman Offensive efficiency ranking - full seasons only Blazers: 14, 10, 9, 2, 7 - Ave. rank 8th Kings: 17, 7, 2, 1, 5, 3, 11 - Ave. rank 7th (this despite the Kings being absolute crap when he got there. IMO one of the most remarkable coaching job done in recent memory) Rockets: 16, 17, 14 - Ave. rank 16th Warriors: 14, 11 - Ave. rank 12th JVG offensive efficiency ranking - full seasons only Rockets: 15, 29, 15, 24 - Ave. rank 21st Knicks: 25, 20, 26, 21, 19 - Ave. rank 22nd Even thinking of comparing JVG's offense to Adelman's offense is quite simply a joke. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Adelman is so far ahead it's not even funny.
I've always felt the two best Houston teams during the McGrady-Yao era (and therefore the best chances at a ring) were: 2006-07 (an MVP level Yao and Mac still at his peak, absolutely stifling JVG defense) 2008-09 (with Artest, our own version of the Big Three, great supporting cast and great chemistry) One was coached by van Gundy, the other by Adelman. Both coaches could have made it to the finals with their respective rosters, had it not been for - what else -injuries.
I think both of you have valid points. If you notice the jvg offensive rankings with the rockets, his teams were middle of the pack when yao and tracy wasnt riddled with injuries for long stretches. When adelman had both yao and tracy in the same context, they were middle of the pack also. I think adelman can develop an offensive team as he did with sacramento and portland where as jvg cant. I think both are good coaches capable of winning games. Are either championship caliber coaches? I dont think either are because of their faults. Adelman coached teams seem to not be mentally tough enough. Jvg coached teams are very average offensive and thats being kind. I think both would fare different with the same team. I think adelman would do a better job coaching a team like ok city than jvg would. I think jvg would do a better job coaching portland than adelman would. Its really who you prefer.
JVG did good because he had Yao and T-mac still in their primes/ near primes, Adelman did good because he had a very well rounded team with a good supporting cast you put the 06 Yao and T-mac with current Scola, Brooks/Lowry, Battier/Ariza? Championships baby.
LOL why are you comparing their coaching history? Isn't it obvious the Knicks finals team would have a much larger defensive focus than the Sacramento Kings team that feature Webber, Peja and Bibby? C'mon now I thought it was common sense to limit this discussion to their respective rockets team, as that was the only ones that had similar players playing at one point or another.
